Do you turn off phone on a flight because you are told to?

Do you turn off phone on a flight because you are told to?

Author
Discussion

captain_cynic

9,305 posts

82 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Griffith4ever said:
It's not really a thing any more, the interference. There isn't one documened case of it ever happening either.
Really, not one documented case?

https://www.cnet.com/culture/report-phones-really-...

Fortunately due to the high levels of training, redundancy and skill, these incidents haven't resulted in a fatality, that does not mean they aren't taken seriously. The main reason air travel is so phenomenally safe is because minor issues are treated seriously.

Now before anyone complains about the age of that article, there is a newer issue with 5G C-band interfering with radio altimeters installed in most Boeing aircraft.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense...

Now this is mainly an American FCC screw up by assigning that band 3.3 GHz to 4.2 GHz to wireless carriers when the 3.7 to 3.98 GHz spectrum was already assigned to Boeing. Most other countries have limited the use of the C-band not to interfere with the radio altimeters.

However it's a good example of how radio signals are still a serious issue for aircraft and pilots.

captain_cynic

9,305 posts

82 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
I turn mine off because I understand the technology involved and am not a selfish tt.

For the purposes of argument, flight mode is essentially off as what we really need are those radio transmitters turned off (erm, and that's what flight mode does).

1. Radio interference.

I'll start this off with some questions in a letter I received from a Mr Selfish Mcttmoron.

Q: How can my one little phone cause any problems for the biiiiiiig plane.

A: On an average B737/A320 family aircraft there are 150 odd seats. That's potentially 150+ sources of EMR in the form of phone signals. Now most towers are pointed downwards because that's usually where the phones are. So when you start getting any altitude the first thing a phone will do is go to max transmission power trying to find towers that aren't there. I can see your eyes glazing over, imagine 150 infants, all start screaming at the top of their lungs all at once... not only will it ruin your hearing, no-one can hear you say anything either.

The fact is that whilst one tt may seem harmless, dozens of tts working in unison can cause chaos, see also: traffic jams.

Q: Why don't they just shield the bits on the aircraft.

A: Because they cant. It adds weight and components can be extremely sensitive even with shielding. Also if you shield a radio antenna, it stops working as a radio antenna.

Mr Mcttmoron had other questions in his kind letter, but I'll leave it there.

2. Your personal safety.

I know safety demonstrations are annoying, boring and cringed up to the hilt, but it's 2-5 minutes of your life and lets face it, you're not really going anywhere (well you know what I mean). This might be the one time you really need it, lets hope not but it's better to have it and not need it than the other way around. Also if something does go wrong during take off or landing, they need everyone paying attention.

Also the other reason you're told to put it away during take off is that inevitably, Clumsy McButterfingers will drop their phone and without thinking unstrap his poorly adjusted seatbelt and start scrabling around looking for it, gormlessness emitting "where's my Iphone, has anyone seen my Iphone" whilst the pilot is putting down around 200 Kn of thrust. Also, there's a reason modern safety demos tell you if you drop your phone in the seat, do not attempt to retrieve it yourself and call a crew member (erm... that reason is that people have hurt themselves enough times it now has to be in the safety demonstration).

3. Your quality of (battery) life.

I mentioned above that if the radio is left on, it'll start screaming for a tower. One of the wonderful things about modern mobile phone radios is that they use the minimum amount of power necessary for a good signal. This saves your battery, ergo if you have poor reception your battery drains faster and if there is no reception, the transmitter is going full blast looking for some, thus depleting your battery even faster.

Help the pilots, help other passengers, help yourself, don't be a selfish tt and switch off those radios.

Griffith4ever

2,508 posts

22 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
5th Paragraph of that report:

"The evidence presented in this report still feels anecdotal, rather than scientific."

https://www.allgetaways.com/flight-booking/arent-c...

"Despite the ban, no concrete proof exists that cell phone use could pose a hazard in the air. Even though the Radio Technical Commission for Aeronautics has examined evidence since 2003, not enough research has been done to form a definitive conclusion. To be safe, the FCC continues its ban on cell phones"

You can argue either way - it's ALL anecdotal - but as stated earlier - if it were a real risk you'd not be able to fly with phones in your posession.


Saweep

6,281 posts

173 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
I turn mine off because I understand the technology involved and am not a selfish tt.

For the purposes of argument, flight mode is essentially off as what we really need are those radio transmitters turned off (erm, and that's what flight mode does).

1. Radio interference.

I'll start this off with some questions in a letter I received from a Mr Selfish Mcttmoron.

Q: How can my one little phone cause any problems for the biiiiiiig plane.

A: On an average B737/A320 family aircraft there are 150 odd seats. That's potentially 150+ sources of EMR in the form of phone signals. Now most towers are pointed downwards because that's usually where the phones are. So when you start getting any altitude the first thing a phone will do is go to max transmission power trying to find towers that aren't there. I can see your eyes glazing over, imagine 150 infants, all start screaming at the top of their lungs all at once... not only will it ruin your hearing, no-one can hear you say anything either.

The fact is that whilst one tt may seem harmless, dozens of tts working in unison can cause chaos, see also: traffic jams.

Q: Why don't they just shield the bits on the aircraft.

A: Because they cant. It adds weight and components can be extremely sensitive even with shielding. Also if you shield a radio antenna, it stops working as a radio antenna.

Mr Mcttmoron had other questions in his kind letter, but I'll leave it there.

2. Your personal safety.

I know safety demonstrations are annoying, boring and cringed up to the hilt, but it's 2-5 minutes of your life and lets face it, you're not really going anywhere (well you know what I mean). This might be the one time you really need it, lets hope not but it's better to have it and not need it than the other way around. Also if something does go wrong during take off or landing, they need everyone paying attention.

Also the other reason you're told to put it away during take off is that inevitably, Clumsy McButterfingers will drop their phone and without thinking unstrap his poorly adjusted seatbelt and start scrabling around looking for it, gormlessness emitting "where's my Iphone, has anyone seen my Iphone" whilst the pilot is putting down around 200 Kn of thrust. Also, there's a reason modern safety demos tell you if you drop your phone in the seat, do not attempt to retrieve it yourself and call a crew member (erm... that reason is that people have hurt themselves enough times it now has to be in the safety demonstration).

3. Your quality of (battery) life.

I mentioned above that if the radio is left on, it'll start screaming for a tower. One of the wonderful things about modern mobile phone radios is that they use the minimum amount of power necessary for a good signal. This saves your battery, ergo if you have poor reception your battery drains faster and if there is no reception, the transmitter is going full blast looking for some, thus depleting your battery even faster.

Help the pilots, help other passengers, help yourself, don't be a selfish tt and switch off those radios.
I bet you were first in line for a Covid shot

snuffy

8,351 posts

271 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Saweep said:
I bet you were first in line for a Covid shot
Turn your phone off - don't kill Granny !

markiii

2,545 posts

181 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
i have a mate who certifies planes safe to fly for BA and he's been telling me for years its all bullst, turning your phone off or leaving it on makes no real world difference. I turn mine purely onto airplane mode because the battery would never last a the flight otherwise.

and thats the only reason

Most airlines have been looking at having onboard networks they can charge you the earth for anyway


BigBen

11,245 posts

217 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
ecs said:
Saweep said:
Petrus1983 said:
Saweep said:
On Emirates flights you can use your phone whilst flying...I'm not sure how it works but you can.
WiFi is pretty standard on flights these days - I try and avoid flights that don’t have WiFi as I find I can get a lot of work done up there.
I don't know how it works...I presumed it was different to wifi calls. Could be wrong though!
Some flights offer AeroMobile which uses a cellular connection (in addition to wifi).
AeroMobile uses a small base station located on the aircraft which then routes the calls via a satellite connection.

Whilst interference is a risk the cheif reason for the phones off rule is the ground cellular network is not designed to hand over between cells towers at 500mph and it especially isn't designed for 100+ handsets to do this simultaniously.

i went to a conference at Airbus in Hamburg about mobile phone use on aircraft back in the early 2000s. There were presentations from all sorts of interested stakeholders, this included a study of interference with instruments and it was shown that a handset held right up to a radio compass could seriously mess it up but in general a 'phone in the passenger cabin had a tiny risk of causing a problem.

The other interesting topic was around radio spectrum use and the legality of using certain frequency bands in the airspace above a country which did not use said frequency.

Ben


z4RRSchris

10,634 posts

166 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
its not only battery, but its pretty pointless having it on the whole flight as you wont get a signal?

Even flying into london city or Heathrow its only the last 2/3 minutes you can pick something up.

remember landing in moscow and everyone was on their phones a few mins from landing.

Hol

7,699 posts

187 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Bluemondy said:
Absolutely. Flight mode as soon as the engines start, or I'm told.

Can't really see why you wouldn't.
First post that matches my behaviour. ^^

Flight mode.
Phone, Tablet and Kindle.

I can charged them all on the flight in that mode still, if I need to
I can also use in flight Wi-Fi.



Edited by Hol on Thursday 23 March 10:20

Saweep

6,281 posts

173 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
its not only battery, but its pretty pointless having it on the whole flight as you wont get a signal?

Even flying into london city or Heathrow its only the last 2/3 minutes you can pick something up.

remember landing in moscow and everyone was on their phones a few mins from landing.
That is why I love and despair at Russians in equal measure.

Rick101

6,807 posts

137 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Can anyone actually say they left their phone on and crashed and died as a result?

I actively use mine in the hope it keeps the Pilots awake.

limmy01

63 posts

121 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
I fly twice a week and I have seen it all, people txing, people doing video calls and people even making calls even though there is an announcement to put phones In flight mode. It use to worry me years ago now i don't panic as I would of been dead many times over. For the record mine is always on flight mode

Mabbs9

904 posts

205 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
It's not bks. Just turn it off when asked to. 5G the bigger issue, particularly in the US where it uses a higher power. We even have a 5g brief for each airport to state if we need to take any action. It can affect the radio altimeter on our aircraft and its not an old one. It's the very latest.

The risk is low but if it did go wrong it could be quite hazardous.

Griffith4ever

2,508 posts

22 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Saweep said:
I bet you were first in line for a Covid shot
And still wearing a mask . It's no real inconvenience, after all.

dasbimmerowner

357 posts

128 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
I've done flights and forgotten to turn it off, but most of the time I just switch to flight mode. If you've gone to the trouble of going through a bloody airport putting your phone in flight mode is a miniscule task.

hellorent

286 posts

50 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
parabolica said:
Plus, if anyone thinks they will get a mobile phone signal at 38,000ft they're going to be disappointed.
On a flight from UK to Spain, had a phone which I forgot to switch off, up on arrival
in Spain, I found a welcome to France text message.

manracer

1,475 posts

84 months

Yesterday (00:35)
quotequote all
parabolica said:
Plus, if anyone thinks they will get a mobile phone signal at 38,000ft they're going to be disappointed.
Perhaps not 38,000ft, but certainly at 33,000 feet passing over Portugal a few months ago I received a "Welcome to Portugal" text from the local network.

I've also been able to receive the odd WhatsApp message now and again even at crusing altitude, although admittedly this has only happened twice.



deja.vu

184 posts

3 months

Yesterday (08:28)
quotequote all
z4RRSchris said:
its not only battery, but its pretty pointless having it on the whole flight as you wont get a signal?

Even flying into london city or Heathrow its only the last 2/3 minutes you can pick something up.

remember landing in moscow and everyone was on their phones a few mins from landing.
I fly most weeks and it's very infrequent that the seat doesn't have a USB port for charging.

Most the time I just forget to put mine in flight mode.


KAgantua

3,299 posts

118 months

Yesterday (08:31)
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
I turn mine off because I understand the technology involved and am not a selfish tt.

For the purposes of argument, flight mode is essentially off as what we really need are those radio transmitters turned off (erm, and that's what flight mode does).

1. Radio interference.

I'll start this off with some questions in a letter I received from a Mr Selfish Mcttmoron.

Q: How can my one little phone cause any problems for the biiiiiiig plane.

A: On an average B737/A320 family aircraft there are 150 odd seats. That's potentially 150+ sources of EMR in the form of phone signals. Now most towers are pointed downwards because that's usually where the phones are. So when you start getting any altitude the first thing a phone will do is go to max transmission power trying to find towers that aren't there. I can see your eyes glazing over, imagine 150 infants, all start screaming at the top of their lungs all at once... not only will it ruin your hearing, no-one can hear you say anything either.

The fact is that whilst one tt may seem harmless, dozens of tts working in unison can cause chaos, see also: traffic jams.

Q: Why don't they just shield the bits on the aircraft.

A: Because they cant. It adds weight and components can be extremely sensitive even with shielding. Also if you shield a radio antenna, it stops working as a radio antenna.

Mr Mcttmoron had other questions in his kind letter, but I'll leave it there.

2. Your personal safety.

I know safety demonstrations are annoying, boring and cringed up to the hilt, but it's 2-5 minutes of your life and lets face it, you're not really going anywhere (well you know what I mean). This might be the one time you really need it, lets hope not but it's better to have it and not need it than the other way around. Also if something does go wrong during take off or landing, they need everyone paying attention.

Also the other reason you're told to put it away during take off is that inevitably, Clumsy McButterfingers will drop their phone and without thinking unstrap his poorly adjusted seatbelt and start scrabling around looking for it, gormlessness emitting "where's my Iphone, has anyone seen my Iphone" whilst the pilot is putting down around 200 Kn of thrust. Also, there's a reason modern safety demos tell you if you drop your phone in the seat, do not attempt to retrieve it yourself and call a crew member (erm... that reason is that people have hurt themselves enough times it now has to be in the safety demonstration).

3. Your quality of (battery) life.

I mentioned above that if the radio is left on, it'll start screaming for a tower. One of the wonderful things about modern mobile phone radios is that they use the minimum amount of power necessary for a good signal. This saves your battery, ergo if you have poor reception your battery drains faster and if there is no reception, the transmitter is going full blast looking for some, thus depleting your battery even faster.

Help the pilots, help other passengers, help yourself, don't be a selfish tt and switch off those radios.
Username doesnt check out.

Louis Balfour

24,091 posts

209 months

Yesterday (08:52)
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
I turn mine off because I understand the technology involved and am not a selfish tt.

For the purposes of argument, flight mode is essentially off as what we really need are those radio transmitters turned off (erm, and that's what flight mode does).

1. Radio interference.

I'll start this off with some questions in a letter I received from a Mr Selfish Mcttmoron.

Q: How can my one little phone cause any problems for the biiiiiiig plane.

A: On an average B737/A320 family aircraft there are 150 odd seats. That's potentially 150+ sources of EMR in the form of phone signals. Now most towers are pointed downwards because that's usually where the phones are. So when you start getting any altitude the first thing a phone will do is go to max transmission power trying to find towers that aren't there. I can see your eyes glazing over, imagine 150 infants, all start screaming at the top of their lungs all at once... not only will it ruin your hearing, no-one can hear you say anything either.

The fact is that whilst one tt may seem harmless, dozens of tts working in unison can cause chaos, see also: traffic jams.

Q: Why don't they just shield the bits on the aircraft.

A: Because they cant. It adds weight and components can be extremely sensitive even with shielding. Also if you shield a radio antenna, it stops working as a radio antenna.

Mr Mcttmoron had other questions in his kind letter, but I'll leave it there.

2. Your personal safety.

I know safety demonstrations are annoying, boring and cringed up to the hilt, but it's 2-5 minutes of your life and lets face it, you're not really going anywhere (well you know what I mean). This might be the one time you really need it, lets hope not but it's better to have it and not need it than the other way around. Also if something does go wrong during take off or landing, they need everyone paying attention.

Also the other reason you're told to put it away during take off is that inevitably, Clumsy McButterfingers will drop their phone and without thinking unstrap his poorly adjusted seatbelt and start scrabling around looking for it, gormlessness emitting "where's my Iphone, has anyone seen my Iphone" whilst the pilot is putting down around 200 Kn of thrust. Also, there's a reason modern safety demos tell you if you drop your phone in the seat, do not attempt to retrieve it yourself and call a crew member (erm... that reason is that people have hurt themselves enough times it now has to be in the safety demonstration).

3. Your quality of (battery) life.

I mentioned above that if the radio is left on, it'll start screaming for a tower. One of the wonderful things about modern mobile phone radios is that they use the minimum amount of power necessary for a good signal. This saves your battery, ergo if you have poor reception your battery drains faster and if there is no reception, the transmitter is going full blast looking for some, thus depleting your battery even faster.

Help the pilots, help other passengers, help yourself, don't be a selfish tt and switch off those radios.