'kin Hell - just what is the point of modern f1?
Discussion
maz8062 said:
realjv said:
It's F1, there are good years and there are bad years, same as it ever was. The only real difference between now and say 10, 20 or 30 years ago is the saturation coverage.
The cost cap is the difference as is the ban on testing, both regulations are fundamental to motorsport and make it nigh on impossible to spend your way out of a hole. RBR have an advantage that is locked in until 2026. Mercedes had an advantage from 2014 but there were no regulations stopping a team from spending their way to catch up. If this first mover advantages continues in between regulation changes, there’ll be more of them to level the field.
LukeBrown66 said:
Russel, great reply, add something huh Add something or ask a question, simply posting b
hing is dull, pointless and adds zero. You might aswell have no posted anything.
f1 drivers are utterly petulant, have you heard the garbage they talk about, "oh he touched a white line, oh I could not take my line. Oh he moved over a little on the straight, he gave me no room.
Effing grow a pair and get on with in you utter nonces, it is about time this was all removed, real drivers race without damn radios and use their wits, experience and skill to plan moves, overtakes and pitstops.
And the less said about these so called team bosses the better, most of them simply seem to be guys that like being on the telly and use every example to try play a part that nobody really needs to see.
I ask you what you actually ENJOY about this sport. The racing is garbage, utter garbage,95& of passes are fake and manufactured the drivers are totally selfish and give literally nothing away to fans or the hanger on media, the teams go from being amazing to being tripe one season after the other with a few exceptions, the tracks are just twinkly lights and no challenge whatsoever.
I watched for a few laps yesterday and it was like watching an Esports race, every car looked the same, took the same lines, never moved, never did anything even slightly different, "Oh look sparks" Give me strength,
If you think this is great, I fear for you as if you watched anything truly decent you would probably explode.
The drivers have always been petulant, it's just part of the game. Just now everything they do or say is scrutinised and broadcast. Also the ridiculous amount of rules encroaching upon the actual racing also leads them to be more and more petulant over tiny things. Although I thought Alonso was anything but petulant during a race where the stewards were trying to destroy it for him all the way through. hing is dull, pointless and adds zero. You might aswell have no posted anything. f1 drivers are utterly petulant, have you heard the garbage they talk about, "oh he touched a white line, oh I could not take my line. Oh he moved over a little on the straight, he gave me no room.
Effing grow a pair and get on with in you utter nonces, it is about time this was all removed, real drivers race without damn radios and use their wits, experience and skill to plan moves, overtakes and pitstops.
And the less said about these so called team bosses the better, most of them simply seem to be guys that like being on the telly and use every example to try play a part that nobody really needs to see.
I ask you what you actually ENJOY about this sport. The racing is garbage, utter garbage,95& of passes are fake and manufactured the drivers are totally selfish and give literally nothing away to fans or the hanger on media, the teams go from being amazing to being tripe one season after the other with a few exceptions, the tracks are just twinkly lights and no challenge whatsoever.
I watched for a few laps yesterday and it was like watching an Esports race, every car looked the same, took the same lines, never moved, never did anything even slightly different, "Oh look sparks" Give me strength,
If you think this is great, I fear for you as if you watched anything truly decent you would probably explode.
Agree about the passing. I really think DRS should be binned. The race would have been better without it. What is the fking point of giving them three DRS zones on such a quick track, it's just fully retarded. At least there was one good overtake from Magnussen on Tsunoda.
vaud said:
One option would be to effectively ban the large hubs back at base by banning pit crew>base communications, so they just have the number of people at the track with a cap on numbers. Or limit the amount of data that could be sent back to base per race.
^^this^^it should be capped at circuit personnel only.
data centres on Jupiter should also be banned
Think for the first time ever I turned off the F1 mid race yesterday.
I can't really put my finger on what's changed but part of me is saying it's been dumbed down or been made more 'yank'. When Perez over took Alonso near the start did we really need a massive banner at the top of the screen saying NEW RACE LEADER.
Think the safety car tipped me over the edge though, there was absolutely no need for it. With all the cameras, marshalls etc round the track they apparently rely on one piece of blind technology they use to pinpoint a car - GPS.
It ruined what could have been an interesting race. At least we now have stories they can milk for the next fortnight like 'petulant' max and time penalty controversy as Liberty seem obsessed in making this a soap opera where the off track drama is more important than the actual racing.
I can't really put my finger on what's changed but part of me is saying it's been dumbed down or been made more 'yank'. When Perez over took Alonso near the start did we really need a massive banner at the top of the screen saying NEW RACE LEADER.
Think the safety car tipped me over the edge though, there was absolutely no need for it. With all the cameras, marshalls etc round the track they apparently rely on one piece of blind technology they use to pinpoint a car - GPS.
It ruined what could have been an interesting race. At least we now have stories they can milk for the next fortnight like 'petulant' max and time penalty controversy as Liberty seem obsessed in making this a soap opera where the off track drama is more important than the actual racing.
Edited by WonkeyDonkey on Monday 20th March 17:33
Relatively young, but been watching F1 since my teenage years (early 2000s). This period has seen big changes in the sport, from live free to air tv broadcasts in the UK to the Sky F1 model. F1 under Bernie being famously anti social media to now being all over social media.
Maybe F1 isn’t really aimed at the viewing at home tv public? I haven’t ever been to a race but I’ll be honest, some of the fancy hospitality events do look like great fun alongside the music stages etc make me wonder if F1s focus is that of a travelling Motorsport/music/entertainment festival. Some people might argue about F1 not really providing engaging Motorsport but there are the other formulas that happen on race weekends and I imagine that if I was partying in a pavilion and occasionally watching a brief moment of action on track that would probably be a good weekend.
Afterall, money talks and unfortunately my generation and younger are all about being seen to be in the latest cool place which at the moment is formula 1.
Maybe F1 isn’t really aimed at the viewing at home tv public? I haven’t ever been to a race but I’ll be honest, some of the fancy hospitality events do look like great fun alongside the music stages etc make me wonder if F1s focus is that of a travelling Motorsport/music/entertainment festival. Some people might argue about F1 not really providing engaging Motorsport but there are the other formulas that happen on race weekends and I imagine that if I was partying in a pavilion and occasionally watching a brief moment of action on track that would probably be a good weekend.
Afterall, money talks and unfortunately my generation and younger are all about being seen to be in the latest cool place which at the moment is formula 1.
vaud said:
Marc p said:
One thing I would like to be brought in (although I can’t see it happening), is to ban communications between the driver and crew.
Won't happen due to safety. Always have to be able to get feedback on conditions, or inform a driver of a hazard. One option would be to effectively ban the large hubs back at base by banning pit crew>base communications, so they just have the number of people at the track with a cap on numbers. Or limit the amount of data that could be sent back to base per race.
nickfrog said:
Marc p said:
nickfrog said:
Indeed. There have always been petulant drivers, that is a factor of the size of their ego, but by and large they are pretty level headed and the standards of team bosses has improved over the years IMO.
These 2 races weren't great tbh but it's early days.
I was born in 69 too and can remember some seriously boring and processional races in the 80s, 90s, 00s, etc...
Although I was born 2 decades later than yourself (...) These 2 races weren't great tbh but it's early days.
I was born in 69 too and can remember some seriously boring and processional races in the 80s, 90s, 00s, etc...
S**t…….I now need another 944.
Marc p said:
I would, I have an unhealthy obsession with 80s pop culture and always jealous of those that got to grow up though it. I loved pretending it was 1985 when blasting about in my 944 whilst blaring out some Hall and Oates.
S**t…….I now need another 944.
Brilliant post Marc. My son is the same, and he is only 22. I have a theory about pop/rock music. It has by and large all been "invented" in the 60s/70s/80s. So old foggies like me never had a substantial back catalog when we were young so yesteryear music didn't really exist as such back then, everything was properly "new" anyway so we had enough creativity to sustain our needs without the need for cover versions like now. But you guys have a massive back catalog.S**t…….I now need another 944.
85 was cool. But probably not quite as cool as my 6 months in Ibiza in 1990, even though I had to make do with a Renault 5. I don't really know how I survived it. The driving was the safest part by the way.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 20th March 18:15
Marc p said:
InformationSuperHighway said:
I think DRS should be reversed.
If you are outside of 1 second gap, you get DRS to help you catch up. But then within 1 second you lose it to go side by side and battle to get past.
Personally, I think that would be a great idea!If you are outside of 1 second gap, you get DRS to help you catch up. But then within 1 second you lose it to go side by side and battle to get past.
The cars are so powerful and grippy that even if you get right on someone’s backside to an apex, them being able to get on the power a car length or two ahead gives them a 5 car length gap onto the next straight. DRS is there to overcome this gap.
The cars can already close within 1 second to get DRS, but usually do this by gaining say 0.2/0.3 sec a lap. For an overtake they need to be able to pull say 0.5 sec or more on one straight.
Take away DRS and you have to give them either half the power or crap tyres and brakes and more power, just make the cars harder to keep on the limit and have a few slides.
RB Will said:
Removing DRS alone or implementing it as above would be awful. Look how rare a non DRS pass is, that would be all you get.
The cars are so powerful and grippy that even if you get right on someone’s backside to an apex, them being able to get on the power a car length or two ahead gives them a 5 car length gap onto the next straight. DRS is there to overcome this gap.
The cars can already close within 1 second to get DRS, but usually do this by gaining say 0.2/0.3 sec a lap. For an overtake they need to be able to pull say 0.5 sec or more on one straight.
Take away DRS and you have to give them either half the power or crap tyres and brakes and more power, just make the cars harder to keep on the limit and have a few slides.
Alonso couldn’t pass Hamilton using DRS in Bahrain because he didn’t have enough straight line speed. That is the only reason we were treated to his amazing Turn 10 move. The cars are so powerful and grippy that even if you get right on someone’s backside to an apex, them being able to get on the power a car length or two ahead gives them a 5 car length gap onto the next straight. DRS is there to overcome this gap.
The cars can already close within 1 second to get DRS, but usually do this by gaining say 0.2/0.3 sec a lap. For an overtake they need to be able to pull say 0.5 sec or more on one straight.
Take away DRS and you have to give them either half the power or crap tyres and brakes and more power, just make the cars harder to keep on the limit and have a few slides.
RB Will said:
Marc p said:
InformationSuperHighway said:
I think DRS should be reversed.
If you are outside of 1 second gap, you get DRS to help you catch up. But then within 1 second you lose it to go side by side and battle to get past.
Personally, I think that would be a great idea!If you are outside of 1 second gap, you get DRS to help you catch up. But then within 1 second you lose it to go side by side and battle to get past.
The cars are so powerful and grippy that even if you get right on someone’s backside to an apex, them being able to get on the power a car length or two ahead gives them a 5 car length gap onto the next straight. DRS is there to overcome this gap.
The cars can already close within 1 second to get DRS, but usually do this by gaining say 0.2/0.3 sec a lap. For an overtake they need to be able to pull say 0.5 sec or more on one straight.
Take away DRS and you have to give them either half the power or crap tyres and brakes and more power, just make the cars harder to keep on the limit and have a few slides.
Currently there is zero fun in watching a DRS overtake.
Yesterday was a classic example.. Max vs Lewis.. when I saw that coming up I was super excited.. how was it going to play out? Was Lewis going to battle hard to keep is position? How will Max handle it when Lewis blocks and they have to go to the next corner.. what if they come together? .. Exciting stuff!!
What did we get...
Wing open, long straight, easy pass.. on to the next car..
DRS is the biggest problem in modern F1 in my opinion.
RB Will said:
But you will rarely get that exciting side by side battle without DRS.
Maybe I a twisty section with a mismatch of tyres but you get that with DRS too
I really don't agree. Maybe I a twisty section with a mismatch of tyres but you get that with DRS too
How many of the over takes yesterday were DRS blow pasts on a straight vs a decent battle over multiple corners?
InformationSuperHighway said:
Thats exactly my point though.. It will be a battle, corner to corner, side by side on the straight, blocking, fighting and an amazing spectacle.
Currently there is zero fun in watching a DRS overtake.
Yesterday was a classic example.. Max vs Lewis.. when I saw that coming up I was super excited.. how was it going to play out? Was Lewis going to battle hard to keep is position? How will Max handle it when Lewis blocks and they have to go to the next corner.. what if they come together? .. Exciting stuff!!
What did we get...
Wing open, long straight, easy pass.. on to the next car..
DRS is the biggest problem in modern F1 in my opinion.
I think this example merely highlights the superiority of the Red Bull compared with the Merc. Probably 1 sec gap in race trim, which is a chasm.Currently there is zero fun in watching a DRS overtake.
Yesterday was a classic example.. Max vs Lewis.. when I saw that coming up I was super excited.. how was it going to play out? Was Lewis going to battle hard to keep is position? How will Max handle it when Lewis blocks and they have to go to the next corner.. what if they come together? .. Exciting stuff!!
What did we get...
Wing open, long straight, easy pass.. on to the next car..
DRS is the biggest problem in modern F1 in my opinion.
To answer the original question, from my perspective:
1) It's a sport about building and proving a machine, and watching that machine do it's thing is impressive - it's a joy to watch if you appreciate the effort poured into making the finest machine within the regs at the time - and those regs are forever in flux so there is a degree of anticipation and learning as a viewer at the start of each season.
2) There are often new drivers, often drivers that grow season by season too. It should be of vague interest to the humans watching just how good some human drivers can be in roughly equal machinery.
3) F1 is a battlefield, there is constant off track drama and battles that can impact what we see on track. F1 is in some ways a soap opera that costs about £3bn each year to produce - and it's all real, all the characters are real people, living through the emotions of the events you witness live as you watch.
4) At it's dullest you tune in, go on a round the world trip and wait patiently for whatever scarce on track battles or incidents occur. At it's best, there are teams battling every race at or near the very top of the grid and it becomes mesmerising - ala 21' (minus the manipulation of course..). You have to tune in not because you expect things to suddenly become very exciting, but because you know they might.
I think F1 can still shine and be fantastic entertainment. For most viewers, most of the time, it's just gently interesting to watch in-between it's more exciting moments and seasons. This season is set to be comparatively dull in terms of the title challenges, but seeing what AMR can do now they have a competitive car is going to be fun - can they take the fight to Ferrari over a season? Can Stroll actually do enough to support Alonso in that endeavor? Always lots of subplots in F1 even when the headline results are a foregone conclusion.
1) It's a sport about building and proving a machine, and watching that machine do it's thing is impressive - it's a joy to watch if you appreciate the effort poured into making the finest machine within the regs at the time - and those regs are forever in flux so there is a degree of anticipation and learning as a viewer at the start of each season.
2) There are often new drivers, often drivers that grow season by season too. It should be of vague interest to the humans watching just how good some human drivers can be in roughly equal machinery.
3) F1 is a battlefield, there is constant off track drama and battles that can impact what we see on track. F1 is in some ways a soap opera that costs about £3bn each year to produce - and it's all real, all the characters are real people, living through the emotions of the events you witness live as you watch.
4) At it's dullest you tune in, go on a round the world trip and wait patiently for whatever scarce on track battles or incidents occur. At it's best, there are teams battling every race at or near the very top of the grid and it becomes mesmerising - ala 21' (minus the manipulation of course..). You have to tune in not because you expect things to suddenly become very exciting, but because you know they might.
I think F1 can still shine and be fantastic entertainment. For most viewers, most of the time, it's just gently interesting to watch in-between it's more exciting moments and seasons. This season is set to be comparatively dull in terms of the title challenges, but seeing what AMR can do now they have a competitive car is going to be fun - can they take the fight to Ferrari over a season? Can Stroll actually do enough to support Alonso in that endeavor? Always lots of subplots in F1 even when the headline results are a foregone conclusion.
Have watched for 50 years. Think F1 is in its worst situation that I can remember
FIA are complete clowns. Too many regulations that either mean too many stupid penalties and /or the FIA don’t understand the rules so make the wrong decisions. No consistency
Regulations that we are told will lead to close racing. First two races of this season completely boring.
Billions being spent on a sport that is too complex
To top it all you have Sky F1 doing their best to make it sound exciting !
Better off watching Touring cars if you want entertainment
FIA are complete clowns. Too many regulations that either mean too many stupid penalties and /or the FIA don’t understand the rules so make the wrong decisions. No consistency
Regulations that we are told will lead to close racing. First two races of this season completely boring.
Billions being spent on a sport that is too complex
To top it all you have Sky F1 doing their best to make it sound exciting !
Better off watching Touring cars if you want entertainment
86 said:
Have watched for 50 years. Think F1 is in its worst situation that I can remember
FIA are complete clowns. Too many regulations that either mean too many stupid penalties and /or the FIA don’t understand the rules so make the wrong decisions. No consistency
Regulations that we are told will lead to close racing. First two races of this season completely boring.
Billions being spent on a sport that is too complex
To top it all you have Sky F1 doing their best to make it sound exciting !
Better off watching Touring cars if you want entertainment
Agree about the FIA, I don't really understand why they find such regular opportunities to make themselves look moronic.FIA are complete clowns. Too many regulations that either mean too many stupid penalties and /or the FIA don’t understand the rules so make the wrong decisions. No consistency
Regulations that we are told will lead to close racing. First two races of this season completely boring.
Billions being spent on a sport that is too complex
To top it all you have Sky F1 doing their best to make it sound exciting !
Better off watching Touring cars if you want entertainment
On the other points:
- The regs to make racing closer have 100% worked, effectively solving the dirty air problem that has persisted since aero became a big factor in performance.
- Billions being spent today are billions less than in the last 10-15 years.
- You don't like Sky coverage (nor do I), don't watch via Sky.
I've been watching F1 for well over 50 years (first race I can remember was the '67 Dutch GP although there may have been earlier ones that I forgot) and I can honestly say I have never enjoyed it less.
My main problem is that there is no impression of speed. The cars all corner on rails, they don't move around in the slightest and you don't see the drivers fighting for control, just turn the wheel and round she goes.
Stirling Moss always said that there should be more power than the driver can handle, but despite the 1000hp (or whatever it is these days) I'm not seeing that.
The one single thing I would want to see, is getting rid of downforce, that has plagued motorsport for too many years.
My main problem is that there is no impression of speed. The cars all corner on rails, they don't move around in the slightest and you don't see the drivers fighting for control, just turn the wheel and round she goes.
Stirling Moss always said that there should be more power than the driver can handle, but despite the 1000hp (or whatever it is these days) I'm not seeing that.
The one single thing I would want to see, is getting rid of downforce, that has plagued motorsport for too many years.
Stealthracer said:
I've been watching F1 for well over 50 years (first race I can remember was the '67 Dutch GP although there may have been earlier ones that I forgot) and I can honestly say I have never enjoyed it less.
My main problem is that there is no impression of speed. The cars all corner on rails, they don't move around in the slightest and you don't see the drivers fighting for control, just turn the wheel and round she goes.
Stirling Moss always said that there should be more power than the driver can handle, but despite the 1000hp (or whatever it is these days) I'm not seeing that.
The one single thing I would want to see, is getting rid of downforce, that has plagued motorsport for too many years.
All downforce? May be a bit of a problem My main problem is that there is no impression of speed. The cars all corner on rails, they don't move around in the slightest and you don't see the drivers fighting for control, just turn the wheel and round she goes.
Stirling Moss always said that there should be more power than the driver can handle, but despite the 1000hp (or whatever it is these days) I'm not seeing that.
The one single thing I would want to see, is getting rid of downforce, that has plagued motorsport for too many years.
I keep going back to it.. DRS is the problem.
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