The 997 Appreciation Thread

The 997 Appreciation Thread

Author
Discussion

Discombobulate

4,312 posts

173 months

Tuesday 14th March
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ATM said:
Is that right - lower mileage means rebuild more likely?

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14530783
It can happen at any stage.

Our first 997 ( a 2004 C2S) needed a new engine at just 8000 miles, about 1000 miles after we bought it at a year old (and, in hindsight, already showing signs of bore scoring with first owner complaining of heavy oil consumption and sooty n/s tailpipe.

Our second one had pre-emptive build and upgrade to 4.1 at 67K (we bought it with 6K on the clock) and, while symptom free, had scoring in 6 (albeit early).

hooneybadger

78 posts

40 months

Tuesday 14th March
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teddosan said:
Wow... these have really gone up recently. I remember seeing one at RPM about 18 months ago for around £75k and thinking that was expensive. I guess I was wrong. As usual, where cars are concerned, tbf!
Things have obviously gone up in the last 18-24 months, plus there's the Hexagon tax to consider, but imagine there has been a premium on these as from what I understand there weren't many 997.2 manual turbos to begin with, especially in the UK.

A quick hunt confirmed my wonderings:

https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=9767...

Like others have said, shame they couldn't do a better job of prepping the car!



Mr Fix It

441 posts

255 months

Tuesday 14th March
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Bore scoring under the wrong conditions can occur extremely quickly. For example I had a rebuilt engine which was incorrectly mapped and scored its bores within 3 or so cold start ups and a couple of miles!
[flat 4 in a Subaru]

Joscal

1,815 posts

187 months

Wednesday 15th March
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Mine went at 20,000 miles back in the day. Still love the 997 but wouldn’t buy one that hasn’t been to Hartech nowadays.

Octoposse

2,047 posts

172 months

Wednesday 15th March
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Joscal said:
Mine went at 20,000 miles back in the day. Still love the 997 but wouldn’t buy one that hasn’t been to Hartech nowadays.
My 2007 3.6, pushing 80k on the clock, uses absolutely no oil between annual services and shows no sign of any other problems.

First owner always warmed it up properly and drove it hard. I warm it up properly and bimble along smelling the hedgerow flowers. Wouldn’t be surprised if the motor gets to 250k miles . . . and if it doesn’t I’ll get it rebuilt as a 3.9 (but, to be fair, easy for me to be blasé as it’s a few years into ownership . . . would have been a bugger in the first month or so!).

And is there any 15 year old performance car that doesn’t have a measurable statistical chance of suddenly costing you big money?

Filibuster

Original Poster:

2,564 posts

202 months

Wednesday 15th March
quotequote all
Octoposse said:
My 2007 3.6, pushing 80k on the clock, uses absolutely no oil between annual services and shows no sign of any other problems.

First owner always warmed it up properly and drove it hard. I warm it up properly and bimble along smelling the hedgerow flowers. Wouldn’t be surprised if the motor gets to 250k miles . . . and if it doesn’t I’ll get it rebuilt as a 3.9 (but, to be fair, easy for me to be blasé as it’s a few years into ownership . . . would have been a bugger in the first month or so!).

And is there any 15 year old performance car that doesn’t have a measurable statistical chance of suddenly costing you big money?
My 2005 3.6 has 110k on it's engine (210k on the chassis). It received a new engine from Porsche due to ims failure, this time with the later, bigger bearing.
It was sympathetically properly warmed by the former owner and driven hard, mostly on the german Autobahn. I treat it the same way. No oil consumption between regular (!) oil changes (Motul 5W40) in my ownership (5 years / 25k miles).

Discombobulate

4,312 posts

173 months

Wednesday 15th March
quotequote all
Octoposse said:
My 2007 3.6, pushing 80k on the clock, uses absolutely no oil between annual services and shows no sign of any other problems.

First owner always warmed it up properly and drove it hard. I warm it up properly and bimble along smelling the hedgerow flowers. Wouldn’t be surprised if the motor gets to 250k miles . . . and if it doesn’t I’ll get it rebuilt as a 3.9 (but, to be fair, easy for me to be blasé as it’s a few years into ownership . . . would have been a bugger in the first month or so!).

And is there any 15 year old performance car that doesn’t have a measurable statistical chance of suddenly costing you big money?
Our 3.8 was over serviced ( every 8-10k) and pampered / driven sympathetically when cold etc. And we thought it would be good for 150k as it was symptom free. However it needed its first clutch at 67K and a few other engine out jobs (coolant pipes) etc so I bit the bullet and went full refurb (of everything) and an upgrade to 4.1 and, lo and behold, cylinder 6 was on the way out.

Perhaps I am biased having had it happen twice (once before we even took delivery of the car) but it is a serious design flaw and if I was buying used I would be looking for Hartech rebuild. Even a clear borescope doesn't mean much beyond the short term. Mine was clear at 58K and scored at 67K.

abucd4

488 posts

131 months

Thursday 16th March
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Question (as I could have easily reversed into a car at the lights today…): does anyone else’s 997 not have a guard on reverse? I don’t need to lift/push anything, mine just goes across.

When cold there’s a notch to push through but it’s still easy to accidentally push past this as selecting 1st can be notchy too sometimes.

My gearstick is a little loose/rattly so wondering if this is contributing. Would a short shifter kit with fresh bushes fix this? Don’t fancy splashing four figures on a numeric shifter however.

ATM

16,353 posts

206 months

Thursday 16th March
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abucd4 said:
Question (as I could have easily reversed into a car at the lights today…): does anyone else’s 997 not have a guard on reverse? I don’t need to lift/push anything, mine just goes across.

When cold there’s a notch to push through but it’s still easy to accidentally push past this as selecting 1st can be notchy too sometimes.

My gearstick is a little loose/rattly so wondering if this is contributing. Would a short shifter kit with fresh bushes fix this? Don’t fancy splashing four figures on a numeric shifter however.

abucd4

488 posts

131 months

Thursday 16th March
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ATM said:
Thank you for that - I’d heard of this briefly when I was researching to buy.

Is it’s still available to buy in the uk? All the posts I’ve found are very old and can’t see where to buy it when I google. Is it just a case of find him on forums and message him?

ATM

16,353 posts

206 months

Thursday 16th March
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abucd4 said:
ATM said:
Thank you for that - I’d heard of this briefly when I was researching to buy.

Is it’s still available to buy in the uk? All the posts I’ve found are very old and can’t see where to buy it when I google. Is it just a case of find him on forums and message him?
Buy?

You do it yourself.

You do need to buy the SSK but just to grab the bushes from this.

I have not done it.

Just seen the vid.

abucd4

488 posts

131 months

Thursday 16th March
quotequote all
ATM said:

.
Just got in and watched the video, thank you for that, 100% needed on mine. I’ll get that ssk ordered now.

I think I was thinking of another kit I’d seen on the 996 forums where a guy was modifying and selling ssk with custom bearings etc.

Spotted I’m on my original engine mounts, so replacing those will help too (bizarre, as it’s had a rebuild, but then again there’s no visible sag)

ATM

16,353 posts

206 months

Thursday 16th March
quotequote all
abucd4 said:
I think I was thinking of another kit I’d seen on the 996 forums where a guy was modifying and selling ssk with custom bearings etc.
I bought a fully assembled 997 shifter with bearings instead of bushes but I've not used it yet.

Discombobulate

4,312 posts

173 months

Thursday 16th March
quotequote all
abucd4 said:
Just got in and watched the video, thank you for that, 100% needed on mine. I’ll get that ssk ordered now.

I think I was thinking of another kit I’d seen on the 996 forums where a guy was modifying and selling ssk with custom bearings etc.

Spotted I’m on my original engine mounts, so replacing those will help too (bizarre, as it’s had a rebuild, but then again there’s no visible sag)
Alex on 911 uk forum is your man.

S600BSB

2,124 posts

93 months

Friday 17th March
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Reasonable weather and the salt has been washed away from the roads. Time to get the 997 out of hibernation for a little spin?

Filibuster

Original Poster:

2,564 posts

202 months

Friday 17th March
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S600BSB said:
Reasonable weather and the salt has been washed away from the roads. Time to get the 997 out of hibernation for a little spin?

Terry Winks

36 posts

Friday 17th March
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I have literally had one of those DesignTek short shift kits fitted, for the money, its a superb mod has made the gear shift feel more solid and precise without making the throw stupidly short. I am really impressed.

I have just had a Top Gear Mufflers and 200 Cel Cats fitted, valves open, its errrrm Fruity!

Superdavros

225 posts

219 months

Saturday 18th March
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Joscal said:
Still love the 997 but wouldn’t buy one that hasn’t been to Hartech nowadays.
Whilst I would love to have a Hartech engine in mine and I understand reservations about old second hand cars, mine's a 3.8S manual, 2WD, coupe - bought at 50,000 miles in 2016 ticked onto 177,000 miles today, between meetings in Milton Keynes and the top end of County Durham.

Original engine - only had routine servicing and what it needed, based on 20,000 miles per year, over the past 7 years.
My Indy (Porsche Tech in Coventry) had a look at the bores, during the last service and declared them healthy...

Warm it up properly, drive it hard and look after it with nice oil.

If it craps itself, I'll ring Baz and get a 3.9, refresh the gearbox, suspension etc and start again .... Trigger's 997 and aim for 300,000 miles, like PPBB..

Was thinking of changing it for something sensible, but can't bring myself to do it.....
WBAC say £12k, dealer trade-in similar - i'll keep it thanks.

I used to have an E30 M3 and, according to the internet, the S14 engine in those would snap the chain tensioner at 100,000 miles.. if you didn't spend a chunk to replace it.

Not saying a BMW S14 engine has never, ever snapped a timing chain, but 997 bore-scoring wasn't a standard part of every single 997 engine build at the factory.

Use a bit of sense and get it all checked out, then just buy one..

Slippydiff

14,106 posts

210 months

Saturday 18th March
quotequote all
Superdavros said:
Whilst I would love to have a Hartech engine in mine and I understand reservations about old second hand cars, mine's a 3.8S manual, 2WD, coupe - bought at 50,000 miles in 2016 ticked onto 177,000 miles today, between meetings in Milton Keynes and the top end of County Durham.

Original engine - only had routine servicing and what it needed, based on 20,000 miles per year, over the past 7 years.
My Indy (Porsche Tech in Coventry) had a look at the bores, during the last service and declared them healthy...

Warm it up properly, drive it hard and look after it with nice oil.

If it craps itself, I'll ring Baz and get a 3.9, refresh the gearbox, suspension etc and start again .... Trigger's 997 and aim for 300,000 miles, like PPBB..

Was thinking of changing it for something sensible, but can't bring myself to do it.....
WBAC say £12k, dealer trade-in similar - i'll keep it thanks.

I used to have an E30 M3 and, according to the internet, the S14 engine in those would snap the chain tensioner at 100,000 miles.. if you didn't spend a chunk to replace it.

Not saying a BMW S14 engine has never, ever snapped a timing chain, but 997 bore-scoring wasn't a standard part of every single 997 engine build at the factory.

Use a bit of sense and get it all checked out, then just buy one..
Ah yes, the gospel according to Munich Legends ...

Superdavros

225 posts

219 months

Saturday 18th March
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Slippydiff said:
Ah yes, the gospel according to Munich Legends ...
Don’t get me wrong and to clarify, i am in no way suggesting the same scenario…. Baz and his team have done a great job to fix what is potentially a clear problem with some of these mass produced engines, as opposed the the “Gospel” approach, which was blatant bks, swallowed and perpetuated by the classic car media, who couldn’t be arsed to check if there were any basis to the claim.

As above, were anything to happen to my 997 engine, I’d get them to replace it, I just don’t think people should be automatically terrified.

You watch, mine will implode on the A34 on Monday morning…..