TfL to slap 20mph limit on 65km more of London roads in Sept
Discussion
gt_12345 said:
RECr said:
Far be it for me to defend the types who hate cars in principle, but the practical problems of providing road space and parking in a growing city that was never designed for cars are real.
Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
Cambridge (and probably Brighton) love bicycles, I'm not sure where else you had in mind?Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
And bicycles don't carry the same level of independence like a car. How far can you go on a bicycle, especially at night?
croyde said:
Stig said:
gt_12345 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
raspy said:
I don't know about other places in the UK, but the sheer amount of moped drivers these days riding like lunatics in London make driving in urban areas really hazardous.
They should all be limited to 20mph and monitored with black boxes for risky behaviour.
The moped fast food delivery drivers in London are a massive problem, but the problem is easily solved.They should all be limited to 20mph and monitored with black boxes for risky behaviour.
It should be the law that no one on a provisional licence, be it car or bike, can drive for business. Pleasure use only until you've passed your test.
Thus no one insuring a moped on a provisional licence could get business use cover as it wouldn't be available to provisional licence holders, and as soon as the police saw a pizza box on the back of a moped with L plates, they could pull them for no insurance.
I fail to see a down side to this plan. Who the hell wants provisional licence holders in any kind of vehicle driving for business?
It was pricey enough when I was a well paid motorcycle courier back in the 80s.
Doubt any Deliveroo rider/driver bothers with any form of legality. Any that do, can't be making any profit.
They are still whizzing about at similar speeds and with similar levels of recklessness - the only difference is you can't hear them coming, and in many cases, can't see them at night either as surprising numbers don't have (or don't use) lights. Also no requirement for registration, so no easy way of identifying them.
RECr said:
Far be it for me to defend the types who hate cars in principle, but the practical problems of providing road space and parking in a growing city that was never designed for cars are real.
Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
Bikes are great for whitecollar workers with places to part their bikes.Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
What about people who carry tools or parts to their places of work ?
London transport policy for years has been about removing road real-estate which cars can use and creating congestion in order to deter car use. That doesn't quite tie up with "a growing city that was never designed for cars". It used to be a lot better and has been made worse deliberately.
oyster said:
Tribal Chestnut said:
oyster said:
aceofspades1 said:
20mph at 2am on a 6-lane carriageway is pure evil.
Hoofy said:
It's all around me. Bit annoying when I'm driving at 1am
lobster940 said:
I speak as someone who was flashed the other day on an empty Vauxhall Bridge Road at 3am
Why are you expecting road speed limit policy to be applied for complete outlier cases?The above 3 posters are suggesting the revised limits are wrong as there is little risk of the existing speed limit at the times they are travelling.
My point is that TfL and the Police cannot, and indeed should not, apply policy based on extreme cases. And travelling at such times is an extreme case - it has to be, otherwise the roads wouldn't be empty at that time!
gt_12345 said:
RECr said:
Far be it for me to defend the types who hate cars in principle, but the practical problems of providing road space and parking in a growing city that was never designed for cars are real.
Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
Cambridge (and probably Brighton) love bicycles, I'm not sure where else you had in mind?Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
And bicycles don't carry the same level of independence like a car. How far can you go on a bicycle, especially at night?
Personally I think they should cut to the chase and ban cars full stop from the areas they control. Then we can see if people flock to live in the glorious car free cities having lived under the yoke of enforced car dependency. Or if these cities empty out we can write it off as an experiment that didn't work out, and that people quite like the flexibility that a car can give them.
gt_12345 said:
I do think it's an ideological thing too. It's nearly always left-leaning councils who hate on motorists.
I think there's a deeper hatred for personal independence. We all know socialists like people depending on the Government, so they want to ban private car ownership and have everyone rely on public transport. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it's effectively what their communist utopia is all about.
Oh dear, left and right b**locks now being spouted. The country is truly in a mess.I think there's a deeper hatred for personal independence. We all know socialists like people depending on the Government, so they want to ban private car ownership and have everyone rely on public transport. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it's effectively what their communist utopia is all about.
Quhet said:
Doubt you can go more than 20mph on many of the roads in London anyway.
Bristol's had majority of roads at 20mph for years now. Don't think it's turned it into any more or less of a dump than what it was before but it does make it more pleasant when walking and cycling around.
An Interesting point. I don’t live there but I live in a busy area. My average around town speed is 17mph !Bristol's had majority of roads at 20mph for years now. Don't think it's turned it into any more or less of a dump than what it was before but it does make it more pleasant when walking and cycling around.
gavsdavs said:
Bikes are great for whitecollar workers with places to part their bikes.
What about people who carry tools or parts to their places of work ?
London transport policy for years has been about removing road real-estate which cars can use and creating congestion in order to deter car use. That doesn't quite tie up with "a growing city that was never designed for cars". It used to be a lot better and has been made worse deliberately.
100%, it's deliberateWhat about people who carry tools or parts to their places of work ?
London transport policy for years has been about removing road real-estate which cars can use and creating congestion in order to deter car use. That doesn't quite tie up with "a growing city that was never designed for cars". It used to be a lot better and has been made worse deliberately.
RECr said:
gt_12345 said:
RECr said:
Far be it for me to defend the types who hate cars in principle, but the practical problems of providing road space and parking in a growing city that was never designed for cars are real.
Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
Cambridge (and probably Brighton) love bicycles, I'm not sure where else you had in mind?Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
And bicycles don't carry the same level of independence like a car. How far can you go on a bicycle, especially at night?
It's like they expect everyone to live in tiny flats/boxes, like in Clapham or Battersea and walk/tube/cycle everywhere. Basically your life becomes confined to a bubble.
And guess what this is similar to? USSR, with their communist flats.
Meanwhile those pushing all this have their weekend getaway in the Cotswalds.
Downward said:
Quhet said:
Doubt you can go more than 20mph on many of the roads in London anyway.
Bristol's had majority of roads at 20mph for years now. Don't think it's turned it into any more or less of a dump than what it was before but it does make it more pleasant when walking and cycling around.
An Interesting point. I don’t live there but I live in a busy area. My average around town speed is 17mph !Bristol's had majority of roads at 20mph for years now. Don't think it's turned it into any more or less of a dump than what it was before but it does make it more pleasant when walking and cycling around.
Tribal Chestnut said:
gt_12345 said:
I do think it's an ideological thing too. It's nearly always left-leaning councils who hate on motorists.
I think there's a deeper hatred for personal independence. We all know socialists like people depending on the Government, so they want to ban private car ownership and have everyone rely on public transport. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it's effectively what their communist utopia is all about.
Oh dear, left and right b**locks now being spouted. The country is truly in a mess.I think there's a deeper hatred for personal independence. We all know socialists like people depending on the Government, so they want to ban private car ownership and have everyone rely on public transport. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but it's effectively what their communist utopia is all about.
What % of right-wingers do you think agree with Gary Lineker?
What % of left-wingers supported Liz Truss' removal of the 45% tax rate?
etc
Thank you guys. You have reminded me what a s
t place London is and confirmed the wisdom of my decision 20 years ago.
I have never lived in London and indeed never lived in a major city since 1971.
20 years ago I was asked to move to London for work and seriously considered living in central London, for a job in Finsbury Park. I considered it for 5 days, but then on day 6 a new employee from New Zealand was mugged and quite badly injured on his first day in London, and I beat a hasty retreat.
Since then I have lived in rural aeras and currently am 130 miles from London, yet only 75 minutes from Kings Cross. I have no neighbours, fields all around, and only have to pay to park if I go to Nottingham.
My nearest neighbours. It’s a car forum, so they are Limousins
t place London is and confirmed the wisdom of my decision 20 years ago.I have never lived in London and indeed never lived in a major city since 1971.
20 years ago I was asked to move to London for work and seriously considered living in central London, for a job in Finsbury Park. I considered it for 5 days, but then on day 6 a new employee from New Zealand was mugged and quite badly injured on his first day in London, and I beat a hasty retreat.
Since then I have lived in rural aeras and currently am 130 miles from London, yet only 75 minutes from Kings Cross. I have no neighbours, fields all around, and only have to pay to park if I go to Nottingham.
My nearest neighbours. It’s a car forum, so they are Limousins
QBee said:
Thank you guys. You have reminded me what a st place London is and confirmed the wisdom of my decision 20 years ago.
I have never lived in London and indeed never lived in a major city since 1971.
20 years ago I was asked to move to London for work and seriously considered living in central London, for a job in Finsbury Park. I considered it for 5 days, but then on day 6 a new employee from New Zealand was mugged and quite badly injured on his first day in London, and I beat a hasty retreat.
Since then I have lived in rural aeras and currently am 130 miles from London, yet only 75 minutes from Kings Cross. I have no neighbours, fields all around, and only have to pay to park if I go to Nottingham.
My nearest neighbours. It’s a car forum, so they are Limousins
It's even worse now. Tens of stabbings every week.t place London is and confirmed the wisdom of my decision 20 years ago.I have never lived in London and indeed never lived in a major city since 1971.
20 years ago I was asked to move to London for work and seriously considered living in central London, for a job in Finsbury Park. I considered it for 5 days, but then on day 6 a new employee from New Zealand was mugged and quite badly injured on his first day in London, and I beat a hasty retreat.
Since then I have lived in rural aeras and currently am 130 miles from London, yet only 75 minutes from Kings Cross. I have no neighbours, fields all around, and only have to pay to park if I go to Nottingham.
My nearest neighbours. It’s a car forum, so they are Limousins
Always the same lot.....
aceofspades1 said:
James6112 said:
“Transport for London (TfL) is pushing forward with plans to reduce the speed limits on 137 miles of its 367-mile network by 2024”
As long as targeted to residential/side roads, good news.
Hopefully enforced.
The twonks going too fast are the reason this is coming (not just London)
And you think the twonks going too fast are going to obey the new limits despite breaking the old limits already….?As long as targeted to residential/side roads, good news.
Hopefully enforced.
The twonks going too fast are the reason this is coming (not just London)
RECr said:
gt_12345 said:
RECr said:
Far be it for me to defend the types who hate cars in principle, but the practical problems of providing road space and parking in a growing city that was never designed for cars are real.
Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
Cambridge (and probably Brighton) love bicycles, I'm not sure where else you had in mind?Also left wing councils tend to be very keen on bicycles, which are a pretty unregulated form of personal transport? How does that fit with wanting us all on the bus?
And bicycles don't carry the same level of independence like a car. How far can you go on a bicycle, especially at night?
Personally I think they should cut to the chase and ban cars full stop from the areas they control. Then we can see if people flock to live in the glorious car free cities having lived under the yoke of enforced car dependency. Or if these cities empty out we can write it off as an experiment that didn't work out, and that people quite like the flexibility that a car can give them.
The extremes are not welcome
Quhet said:
Doubt you can go more than 20mph on many of the roads in London anyway.
…
When I was on a London bus a few weeks ago, it was driven like he stole it. It felt like we had broken the Land Speed Record. Imbetween red traffic lights was like a drag strip. …
I never knew London buses could be thrashed so fast. It was like being in that film with Keanu Reeves where the bus couldn’t go below 50 mph
South of the river, there was no shortage of cars
Edited by Mr Miata on Wednesday 22 March 19:35
gt_12345 said:
I think you're correct.
It's like they expect everyone to live in tiny flats/boxes, like in Clapham or Battersea and walk/tube/cycle everywhere. Basically your life becomes confined to a bubble.
And guess what this is similar to? USSR, with their communist flats.
Meanwhile those pushing all this have their weekend getaway in the Cotswalds.
I wish flats in Battersea were communist USSR prices. It's like they expect everyone to live in tiny flats/boxes, like in Clapham or Battersea and walk/tube/cycle everywhere. Basically your life becomes confined to a bubble.
And guess what this is similar to? USSR, with their communist flats.
Meanwhile those pushing all this have their weekend getaway in the Cotswalds.
Unreal said:
pocketspring said:
My car uses more fuel at 20mph in third than 30mph in fourth. So the woman on TV yesterday for the Green party didn't really have much of a clue when she said about the environmental aspect.
You can't have a discussion with those people. They do have a clue. The problem is that their objective is to drive all cars off the road and make driving as inconvenient and expensive as possible but they aren't honest enough to say that.Whilst true that a car cruising at a steady 30mph in 4th will burn less fuel by distance than the same car in 3rd at 20mph, that only assumes a steady cruise. And there sure isn’t much of that in a city.
The fuel burn of accelerating up to 30 and back to zero is almost certainly more than accelerating to 20 and back to zero for the same piece of road.
There’s also more likelihood with a vmax of 20 that you won’t need to always drop to zero so often.
RSTurboPaul said:
Travelling after midnight is 'an extreme case'?
By definition it must be - the roads are empty aren’t they?RSTurboPaul said:
Those evening and night workers better be careful or they'll get branded 'extremists' at this rate.
Err no, that’s a very poor extrapolation and devalues the debate.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff