1995 Griffith 500 restoration

1995 Griffith 500 restoration

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Classic Chim

11,932 posts

136 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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In typical PH fashion someone has to come along and start an argument over cable ties instead of just appreciating the car that’s being built.

What exactly would you gain if you suspended in total 5 hard brake lines and 2 fuel lines off the chassis if that means drilling and sealing a lot of holes. Are you not risking leakage into your chassis rail and tubes for very little if any gain.

I happen to think pinning them to the chassis is a good idea for a number of reasons but each to their own.

Because I have taken a Tvr apart this cable tie argument I looked into, decided it was folly and then found that my cable ties held the pipes very robustly to said chassis and always had done.

If there is a really good reason to suspend them in mid air please tell me what it is. Thanks in advance wink


Belle427

7,262 posts

220 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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I think it's just to avoid metal to metal contact which could accelerate corrosion and maybe rub through?
Just a complete guess though.

Classic Chim

11,932 posts

136 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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TwinKam said:
Weak points? Stress risers? Crumple zones? ...does your chassis not already have a number of 3mm holes in the bottom tubes for the heat shield screws? And there are those who have galvanised their chassis who have drilled two 6mm(?) holes in every tube! A few more 3 or even 4mm holes for 'P' clips would make no structural difference whatsoever. The only reason that tywraps were/are used is because they're cheap and quick. But they are not best practice; in proper grown-up car construction the pipes will touch nothing between clips.
I’m quite happy to accept that and can’t see any reason why you can’t do this but is it necessary and or any better than the way TVR car builders have been doing it for years. It amuses me Tvr used cable ties as proof Britain at its best is just a cottage industry using whatever you have lying around.
In this case cable ties have shown to do the job for decades now but yeah Porsche wouldn’t use cable ties biggrin

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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TwinKam said:
Weak points? Stress risers? Crumple zones? ...does your chassis not already have a number of 3mm holes in the bottom tubes for the heat shield screws? And there are those who have galvanised their chassis who have drilled two 6mm(?) holes in every tube! A few more 3 or even 4mm holes for 'P' clips would make no structural difference whatsoever. The only reason that tywraps were/are used is because they're cheap and quick. But they are not best practice; in proper grown-up car construction the pipes will touch nothing between clips.
Hot dipped galvanised does create additional stresses. Random holes in tubes will create weak points. I don’t think TVRs were ever crash tested so there will be no specific evidence to show how the body and chassis perform in an impact.
Cable ties are a compromise as is the whole car to be fair but it looks very pretty. When it’s in one piece.
I think there is more to life than worry about cable ties holding a tvr together wink

Classic Chim

11,932 posts

136 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
Belle427 said:
I think it's just to avoid metal to metal contact which could accelerate corrosion and maybe rub through?
Just a complete guess though.
It’s clearly better practice but someone must have given Tvr a licence and what you find is contoured to the chassis and rails as these lines are then pinched to chassis with cable ties in all the right places they are pinged tight.

Classic Chim

11,932 posts

136 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
RobXjcoupe said:
Hot dipped galvanised does create additional stresses. Random holes in tubes will create weak points. I don’t think TVRs were ever crash tested so there will be no specific evidence to show how the body and chassis perform in an impact.
Cable ties are a compromise as is the whole car to be fair but it looks very pretty. When it’s in one piece.
I think there is more to life than worry about cable ties holding a tvr together wink
biggrin

TR4man

4,892 posts

161 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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RobXjcoupe said:
I think there is more to life than worry about cable ties holding a tvr together wink
True.

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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Love me, love my cable tie biggrin

Belle427

7,262 posts

220 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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Polly Grigora

10,694 posts

96 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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Classic Chim said:
In typical PH fashion someone has to come along and start an argument over cable ties
Morning matey, if you were to take a step back, stay calm, cool and collected you might notice that there is no argument taking place in this here topic

All others and I have done is to point out that cable ties used to tie brake pipes to tubular steel is not a good method

Surely you agree that the following type of special clips are the dogs bks at a possible low price of 2 to 3 pounds each, the tubular steel doesn't need to be drilled


https://www.mcmaster.com/tubing-clips/vibration-da...

Don't get me wrong though, as mentioned by the OP - there are more important things in life. The main thing is that you enjoy your day

No argument, simply an observation from those that know the job

Classic Chim

11,932 posts

136 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
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Yeah that’s fair and they are very nice clips.
The thing is to my mind anything that creates a grab point for road muck or any other stones or debris and often engine oil etc could encourage build up of crud around those areas but then not many TVR of this age or build quality as this car is likely to be a ( daily ) so not really an issue.
I have no issue with any form fittings take but cable ties are very effective and very simple and clearly last years. I think keeping the chassis steel protected is the most important part of the job here and again my chassis had lots of areas where PC had left the scene but fully intact where cable ties had held these pipes firm for many years.

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Saturday 3rd December 2022
quotequote all
Polly Grigora said:
Classic Chim said:
In typical PH fashion someone has to come along and start an argument over cable ties
Morning matey, if you were to take a step back, stay calm, cool and collected you might notice that there is no argument taking place in this here topic

All others and I have done is to point out that cable ties used to tie brake pipes to tubular steel is not a good method

Surely you agree that the following type of special clips are the dogs bks at a possible low price of 2 to 3 pounds each, the tubular steel doesn't need to be drilled


https://www.mcmaster.com/tubing-clips/vibration-da...

Don't get me wrong though, as mentioned by the OP - there are more important things in life. The main thing is that you enjoy your day

No argument, simply an observation from those that know the job
Let’s call this quits now please.
Thank you for pointing something out that clearly makes your teeth itch.
It’s my car after all and you are not buying it. So it’s really not relevant to push an issue that was never asked for.
I’m sharing pictures of before and after for those that are interested. Not those that want to push a point of view. If you have an amazing re-engineered tvr then you should be proud. I would! If you have a current rebuild thread then point me in the right direction and we can comment on it. I would be very happy to do that.
So……cable ties and there attributes finishes here please.
Thank you

BIG DUNC

1,895 posts

210 months

Monday 5th December 2022
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Its looking good Rob. Brings back memories of when I did my body off.
I managed to find some grey cable ties to match the grey chassis.

mk1fan

10,292 posts

212 months

Tuesday 6th December 2022
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redcard

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Tuesday 6th December 2022
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These new seat covers I’ve been making the past couple of weekends. Wasn’t that keen on diamonds but they have came out well. Now I’m thinking the Griff interior suits a diamond pattern. Perhaps even line the targa panel with diamonds smile

BIG DUNC

1,895 posts

210 months

Tuesday 6th December 2022
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I like that a lot.

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Tuesday 6th December 2022
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The trev and jag are virtually both in a similar position to start interiors and although similar in certain aspects they are totally different animals and it’s been difficult to choose new interior colours and seat panel insert design.
But with that the Griff interior colour has been chosen and will be a burnt orange on the seats, door panel and centre console. The diamonds will be a Bentley double stitched version. Door insert which were carpet will also be diamond and the panel at the rear that holds the rear speakers or vents. Dash and windscreen surround in black. That helps stop any dash reflection. The targa panel can then also be black with the same pattern double stitch diamonds.
Then that leaves the rear roof section hoop. Black to match the roof liner or burnt orange to match the seats? Carpets will be black and black edged. I’m not a fan of contrast edging on carpet.
The actual seats I’m still considering the xjs versions. Whilst no interior is fitted it gives an opportunity to modify those seats where needed and they will look good with a diamond insert. I would like a Tuscan or cerbera seat but the prices of those now are far too expensive.
The dash dials I had enquired to have the colour changed, but no had to be a complete new set. Only cream or black though?! Again Uber expensive. So the original cream dials stay with a new walnut surround. I had considered a black stained walnut surround so it blends into the black dash? But would that make the cream faced dials look like the elephant in the room? So perhaps keep the walnut wood colour as that matches the burnt orange and also helps to blend into the cream face dials.
Just thinking I need to commission the new dash

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Tuesday 7th February
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A bit of an update.
I visited the car recently, freshly painted body now fitted to the chassis with all the running gear.
Body looks good, chassis looks good.
Dirty engine fitted back on brand new chassis, gearbox and diff in a similar condition. Was assured these items would be cleaned and looking good. Before strip down I actually asked to take these parts away to clean ready for the new chassis, was told it was part of the price so no need to take away. Was told too many hours involved to do that. Now wondering if gearbox,diff and engine have had an oil change as was originally told. My car also had a faulty alarm when dropped off. Again was told wouldn’t be an issue. No mention if this has or is going to be repaired or replaced.
Secondly I asked for my under cover twin lights to be fitted with deleted lower front main beam lamps. The front opening to be carefully opened up into a nice oval before paint. This was forgotten. So no front grille mod. Was told this could still be done. I said I wouldn’t want blended in paint on the front after a totally new paint job. So a 7” headlight upgrade was given as a sorry.
Lastly which is really bizarre is the interior. I said I would complete a new interior save the dash and windscreen surround. So both my front seats were stripped to component level?!
As a sorry they will fit my supplied new covering for the targa roof and fold down rear.
I’m gobsmacked. More so as I thought I’d chosen a competent specialist tvr garage to do the work.
The work on the chassis and body is good but both not what I originally asked for. I actually asked for a black chassis but got a white chassis.
Now I feel I need to hold my tongue to have the last bit of work completed so I can pick the car up and trailer away.

RobXjcoupe

Original Poster:

2,898 posts

78 months

Tuesday 7th February
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The dash is currently being made by Pete Wiggins. Hopefully that comes out well.

MikeE

1,760 posts

271 months

Wednesday 8th February
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Got any more pics of the Griff?

Also do you have a similar thread for your XJC?