Replacement for a Z4
Discussion
Yes its hard to describe. I think getting in it and not being sat up high and feeling like I am in a mass produced car is not for me. Firing up that engine and hearing it get going is part of it too. I also like to just walk towards it and see something rare and different (so I wouldnt be up for a Golf GTi)
cerb4.5lee said:
I do however drive like a tit head in the M4 occasionally though! 
The M4 eggs me on too much, and I struggle to resist using its performance to be fair. 
Overall I do drive seriously sensible though in comparison to 20 years ago for definite, and I'm very much "what if?" now, whereas when I was younger I'd never give the "what if?" a second thought in comparison.
"Sensible" and driving fast are not mutually exclusive, though. I like to think I'm a sensible and considerate driver including those times when I'm pushing hard where conditions permit. The M4 eggs me on too much, and I struggle to resist using its performance to be fair. Overall I do drive seriously sensible though in comparison to 20 years ago for definite, and I'm very much "what if?" now, whereas when I was younger I'd never give the "what if?" a second thought in comparison.
The real "tit heads" on the M4 are the ones doing 60 mph in the middle lane with nothing in the inside lane.
coldel said:
Yes its hard to describe. I think getting in it and not being sat up high and feeling like I am in a mass produced car is not for me. Firing up that engine and hearing it get going is part of it too. I also like to just walk towards it and see something rare and different (so I wouldnt be up for a Golf GTi)
If you have the patience for one, *nothing* beats the occasion, sound and fury of a TVR. Even when you get regularly overtaken by diesels.plenty said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I do however drive like a tit head in the M4 occasionally though! The M4 eggs me on too much, and I struggle to resist using its performance to be fair.
Overall I do drive seriously sensible though in comparison to 20 years ago for definite, and I'm very much "what if?" now, whereas when I was younger I'd never give the "what if?" a second thought in comparison.
"Sensible" and driving fast are not mutually exclusive, though. I like to think I'm a sensible and considerate driver including those times when I'm pushing hard where conditions permit. The M4 eggs me on too much, and I struggle to resist using its performance to be fair. Overall I do drive seriously sensible though in comparison to 20 years ago for definite, and I'm very much "what if?" now, whereas when I was younger I'd never give the "what if?" a second thought in comparison.
The real "tit heads" on the M4 are the ones doing 60 mph in the middle lane with nothing in the inside lane.
I've always enjoyed seeing the odd person gunning it, but that does seem very rare now though. The whole "speed kills" thing has took over now I reckon.
plenty said:
coldel said:
Yes its hard to describe. I think getting in it and not being sat up high and feeling like I am in a mass produced car is not for me. Firing up that engine and hearing it get going is part of it too. I also like to just walk towards it and see something rare and different (so I wouldnt be up for a Golf GTi)
If you have the patience for one, *nothing* beats the occasion, sound and fury of a TVR. Even when you get regularly overtaken by diesels.C70R said:
You could always spend £5k on an earlier 3.0i convertible Z4. Basically identical performance, one of the best (and most robust) engines BMW has ever produced, all the fun of your old car with the chance to drop the top.
I'm sure someone will correct me, but wasn't there an increase in power with the post 2006 3.0si over the earlier 3 litre cars?SpudLink said:
C70R said:
You could always spend £5k on an earlier 3.0i convertible Z4. Basically identical performance, one of the best (and most robust) engines BMW has ever produced, all the fun of your old car with the chance to drop the top.
I'm sure someone will correct me, but wasn't there an increase in power with the post 2006 3.0si over the earlier 3 litre cars?C70R said:
30bhp more, but only 10lbft. There's really very little difference in performance according to magazine tests.
They were also different engines, the M54 vs the much newer design N52. On the road though, very little difference in reality. The biggest difference, if you care to drive that way, is the chassis is claimed by BMW to be x2 the stiffness of the roadster.
coldel said:
C70R said:
30bhp more, but only 10lbft. There's really very little difference in performance according to magazine tests.
They were also different engines, the M54 vs the much newer design N52. On the road though, very little difference in reality. The biggest difference, if you care to drive that way, is the chassis is claimed by BMW to be x2 the stiffness of the roadster.
The main difference in terms of power production was a switch to dual-VANOS (vs the single-VANOS in the M54), which helped to shift peak power further up the rev range and release a bit more oomph.
Z4C seems to fall in the very common slot of a car which could be "perfect", but falls just short of it and makes you ask, why? Why not go all the way?
It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
There is quite a bit of that going on. I have the impression that even more so with cars of the modern era. Either by design/engineering needs or by oversight. Almost as if there was a gentleman's agreement between carmakers, no to give us everything. We just can't have nice things.
It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
There is quite a bit of that going on. I have the impression that even more so with cars of the modern era. Either by design/engineering needs or by oversight. Almost as if there was a gentleman's agreement between carmakers, no to give us everything. We just can't have nice things.
Shifter1 said:
Never saw a release time frame or any prices, ala BBR.
They have been around for yonks. I have a BBR Stage Two Turbo. It’s friendlier than an Elise but uncomfortable compared to the other cars mentioned here. I have looked at the Z4M - it’s got the modern classic appeal to it but I found the new Z4 M40 to be light years ahead in terms of engine and chassis, even if it’s not a full ‘M’.fido said:
Shifter1 said:
Never saw a release time frame or any prices, ala BBR.
They have been around for yonks. I have a BBR Stage Two Turbo. It’s friendlier than an Elise but uncomfortable compared to the other cars mentioned here. I have looked at the Z4M - it’s got the modern classic appeal to it but I found the new Z4 M40 to be light years ahead in terms of engine and chassis, even if it’s not a full ‘M’.I have been hearing talks for years, from several companies. Nobody ever delivered. Swallows has been talking about this in several videos, for a while. But they have no kits or prices on their website. You go to BBR, it's all there. All their kit options, prices etc. No vaporware. This is why I mentioned BBR and probably what caused the confusion. But I meant to quote the XKR manual swap.
I see I mistakenly left the MX5 part in there. Sorry.Shifter1 said:
Z4C seems to fall in the very common slot of a car which could be "perfect", but falls just short of it and makes you ask, why? Why not go all the way?
It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
Lots of reasons. Many being budget related. Manufacturers set a cost price that the car has to fall into and that means you cannot make the perfect car every time. Also range. Make the car too good, that it gets too close to the hero model then you effectively damage that models ability to sell. I would imagine engine wise, they could get more power out of it but then the tolerances to failure reduce, they dont want engines too highly strung failing all over the press reports. So on and so forth. It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
No car is perfect, this is designed for a certain type of driving, given a certain budget for its new sale price, and it ticks a lot of those boxes. There will always be downsides though.
coldel said:
Shifter1 said:
Z4C seems to fall in the very common slot of a car which could be "perfect", but falls just short of it and makes you ask, why? Why not go all the way?
It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
Lots of reasons. Many being budget related. Manufacturers set a cost price that the car has to fall into and that means you cannot make the perfect car every time. Also range. Make the car too good, that it gets too close to the hero model then you effectively damage that models ability to sell. I would imagine engine wise, they could get more power out of it but then the tolerances to failure reduce, they dont want engines too highly strung failing all over the press reports. So on and so forth. It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
No car is perfect, this is designed for a certain type of driving, given a certain budget for its new sale price, and it ticks a lot of those boxes. There will always be downsides though.
But in the case of the Z4C this doesn't fit.
I don't think it needs more power. It wouldn't have really made that much difference on the budget to have sorted the suspension and not used the dreadful steering. To me it looks like oversight/incompetence.
And what were they protecting? BMW made no AMG GT equivalent, which is about the only type of car they could want to protect. M3 and the like are totally different types of cars and don't overlap.
Shifter1 said:
Z4C seems to fall in the very common slot of a car which could be "perfect", but falls just short of it and makes you ask, why? Why not go all the way?
It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
Assuming you mean handling (because there's nothing wrong with the basic form factor or straight sixes), then I suspect it's because there wasn't enough time allocated to fine-tuning, or the project was rushed, or they needed the engineering resource elsewhere. Another few months in development would have yielded a very different car out of the box. A rare mistake by BMW who are usually quite thorough.It has a lot going for it. It does a lot which other similar cars don't. But yet, it falls just short of delivering. Really a pity, as where we're going with EVs, a car like the Z4C, if it was well rounded and closed the circle, would be such a treasured one.
Fortunately a decent alignment and aftermarket suspension transforms the car. Although you're still stuck with the EPAS.
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