Official 2023 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Tuesday 14th March

cgt2 said:

Anyone have any insight into whether the huge tourism push is actually working for SA "reinventing" itself. I haven't seen much evidence other than lots of glossy advertising.

Safety cars may favour Aston as their title sponsor just happens to be the state oil company!

It is still mostly religious tourism there, the large Red Sea resorts that will attract Western tourists are still under construction. They have relaxed the visit visa requirements though, and are marketing the mountains, sand dunes and ancient cities to visitors.

I’m in Dubai, and it’s fair to say that most of the tourist traffic between Saudi and UAE is heading here rather than there. Probably a few heading there this weekend though, and some of those might stay for a few days afterwards.

thegreenhell

12,311 posts

206 months

Tuesday 14th March

vaud said:

PhilAsia said:

Max' Achilles heel is, imho, his inability to see further than winning the next corner.

Younger Max, yes, but he's matured a lot in the last 18 months.

We don't know that until he's put under pressure. People were saying he'd matured in 2020, but then put him in a title fight and the mask slips...

MustangGT

10,225 posts

267 months

Tuesday 14th March

HTP99 said:

vaud said:

PhilAsia said:

Max' Achilles heel is, imho, his inability to see further than winning the next corner.

Younger Max, yes, but he's matured a lot in the last 18 months.

Mmmm, we've not seen him yet in a credible fight for wins and the title since his frankly appalling driving in 2021, last year he walked it, this year it looks as though he may, I'll reserve judgment until he is actually fighting for the title, personally I think if that happens he will revert to previous form.

Edited by HTP99 on Tuesday 14th March 09:06

Fully agree with you, HTP99.

Mark-C

4,019 posts

192 months

Tuesday 14th March

I suspect we won't get to find out if Max has changed this year unless the first race turns out to be an outlier.

We're going to have to get used to it and focus on the rest of the battles otherwise race threads are going to be very predictable this year.

shirt

21,458 posts

188 months

Tuesday 14th March

Sandpit Steve said:

cgt2 said:

Anyone have any insight into whether the huge tourism push is actually working for SA "reinventing" itself. I haven't seen much evidence other than lots of glossy advertising.

Safety cars may favour Aston as their title sponsor just happens to be the state oil company!

It is still mostly religious tourism there, the large Red Sea resorts that will attract Western tourists are still under construction. They have relaxed the visit visa requirements though, and are marketing the mountains, sand dunes and ancient cities to visitors.

I’m in Dubai, and it’s fair to say that most of the tourist traffic between Saudi and UAE is heading here rather than there. Probably a few heading there this weekend though, and some of those might stay for a few days afterwards.

there is no need to attract western tourists. the bulk will be from gcc / africa / asia which is also the bulk of uae tourist influx. plus there's simply the local market, giving options to saudi's who would otherwise head abroad.

oyster

11,878 posts

235 months

Tuesday 14th March

HTP99 said:

vaud said:

PhilAsia said:

Max' Achilles heel is, imho, his inability to see further than winning the next corner.

Younger Max, yes, but he's matured a lot in the last 18 months.

Mmmm, we've not seen him yet in a credible fight for wins and the title since his frankly appalling driving in 2021, last year he walked it, this year it looks as though he may, I'll reserve judgment until he is actually fighting for the title, personally I think if that happens he will revert to previous form.

Edited by HTP99 on Tuesday 14th March 09:06

This very race last year had a proper ding-dong battle between Charles and Max. Both fought very cleanly indeed.
And it went on for a few races too, until the RB development outdid Ferrari.

RiseUp

224 posts

39 months

Tuesday 14th March

cgt2 said:

Anyone have any insight into whether the huge tourism push is actually working for SA "reinventing" itself. I haven't seen much evidence other than lots of glossy advertising.

Safety cars may favour Aston as their title sponsor just happens to be the state oil company!

When Aramco makes $160 billion profit, I highly doubt they care right now.

paulguitar

19,239 posts

100 months

Tuesday 14th March

oyster said:

This very race last year had a proper ding-dong battle between Charles and Max. Both fought very cleanly indeed.
And it went on for a few races too, until the RB development outdid Ferrari.

Yep, there was some good racing early last season, and Verstappen behaved himself. That was likely down to some tightening up of the rules (mostly in response to his outrageous driving at the end of 2021) and so he knew he would get a penalty if he didn't attempt to try to go around a corner when another driver was alongside.

What we haven't seen since 2021 is how he would do in a genuine title fight under pressure.

Niponeoff

839 posts

14 months

Tuesday 14th March

paulguitar said:

oyster said:

This very race last year had a proper ding-dong battle between Charles and Max. Both fought very cleanly indeed.
And it went on for a few races too, until the RB development outdid Ferrari.

Yep, there was some good racing early last season, and Verstappen behaved himself. That was likely down to some tightening up of the rules (mostly in response to his outrageous driving at the end of 2021) and so he knew he would get a penalty if he didn't attempt to try to go around a corner when another driver was alongside.

What we haven't seen since 2021 is how he would do in a genuine title fight under pressure.

He fought leclerc early days and was coming from behind in the championship and left plenty of room. It was a good battle for a few laps and we'll driven by both. There's no reason to think that's not how he would drive.

22,879 posts

147 months

Tuesday 14th March

Niponeoff said:

paulguitar said:

oyster said:

This very race last year had a proper ding-dong battle between Charles and Max. Both fought very cleanly indeed.
And it went on for a few races too, until the RB development outdid Ferrari.

Yep, there was some good racing early last season, and Verstappen behaved himself. That was likely down to some tightening up of the rules (mostly in response to his outrageous driving at the end of 2021) and so he knew he would get a penalty if he didn't attempt to try to go around a corner when another driver was alongside.

What we haven't seen since 2021 is how he would do in a genuine title fight under pressure.

He fought leclerc early days and was coming from behind in the championship and left plenty of room. It was a good battle for a few laps and we'll driven by both. There's no reason to think that's not how he would drive.

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

paulguitar

19,239 posts

100 months

Tuesday 14th March

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

22,879 posts

147 months

Tuesday 14th March

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

Will be interesting if he can race fairly against Alonso. His usual explanation for how well he behaves when racing against Leclerc, for example, compared to Hamilton is that he came up alongside Leclerc and other drivers his age so he can race against them well.

paulguitar

19,239 posts

100 months

Tuesday 14th March

HustleRussell said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

Will be interesting if he can race fairly against Alonso. His usual explanation for how well he behaves when racing against Leclerc, for example, compared to Hamilton is that he came up alongside Leclerc and other drivers his age so he can race against them well.

I really hope that is something we get to see. Some potential for fireworks there.

PhilAsia

2,519 posts

62 months

Tuesday 14th March

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by 8-time WDC Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

Will be interesting if he can race fairly against Alonso. His usual explanation for how well he behaves when racing against Leclerc, for example, compared to Hamilton is that he came up alongside Leclerc and other drivers his age so he can race against them well.

I really hope that is something we get to see. Some potential for fireworks there.

I genuinely feel Max has gone the route of "smashing into others to get the point across, until they ultimately steer clear every time". Once he then has the side-by-side 'fear of collision advantage', having a better performing car cements the deal.

All the drivers that grew up "racing" with Max learnt how he would go beyond what is reasonably expected sporting behavior and that is why they keep away from him. Lewis was an unknown and we saw how that went. Expect more of the same for Alonso if there it is clear he can actu-a-l-l-y challenge Max for the WDC, but slightly tamped down a bit because he does not have 8 titles...

cgt2

5,138 posts

175 months

Tuesday 14th March

paulguitar said:

I really hope that is something we get to see. Some potential for fireworks there.

Absolutely we all want to see that. Though I suspect he won't try any hanky panky with Nando.

pablo

17,444 posts

260 months

Tuesday 14th March

PhilAsia said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by 8-time WDC Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

Will be interesting if he can race fairly against Alonso. His usual explanation for how well he behaves when racing against Leclerc, for example, compared to Hamilton is that he came up alongside Leclerc and other drivers his age so he can race against them well.

I really hope that is something we get to see. Some potential for fireworks there.

I genuinely feel Max has gone the route of "smashing into others to get the point across, until they ultimately steer clear every time". Once he then has the side-by-side 'fear of collision advantage', having a better performing car cements the deal.

All the drivers that grew up "racing" with Max learnt how he would go beyond what is reasonably expected sporting behavior and that is why they keep away from him. Lewis was an unknown and we saw how that went. Expect more of the same for Alonso if there it is clear he can actu-a-l-l-y challenge Max for the WDC, but slightly tamped down a bit because he does not have 8 titles...

Max will crash into you to deny you both the points.
The rest of the field would rather yield and take less points.

Alonso will yield because AM are fighting for a high finish in the WCC.

Sadly Anyone hoping he holds his ground and provokes Max into a collision is dreaming.

22,879 posts

147 months

Tuesday 14th March

PhilAsia said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

paulguitar said:

HustleRussell said:

...against Leclerc and other drivers. However he very clearly has a massive bee in his bonnet about Hamilton for some reason and drives entirely differently against him.

Yes, he does seem to be very triggered by 8-time WDC Lewis. Not that it is likely to be an issue this season...

Will be interesting if he can race fairly against Alonso. His usual explanation for how well he behaves when racing against Leclerc, for example, compared to Hamilton is that he came up alongside Leclerc and other drivers his age so he can race against them well.

I really hope that is something we get to see. Some potential for fireworks there.

I genuinely feel Max has gone the route of "smashing into others to get the point across, until they ultimately steer clear every time". Once he then has the side-by-side 'fear of collision advantage', having a better performing car cements the deal.

All the drivers that grew up "racing" with Max learnt how he would go beyond what is reasonably expected sporting behavior and that is why they keep away from him. Lewis was an unknown and we saw how that went. Expect more of the same for Alonso if there it is clear he can actu-a-l-l-y challenge Max for the WDC, but slightly tamped down a bit because he does not have 8 titles...

I disagree actually, Verstappen and Leclerc had a few spicy battles on track last season with Leclerc appearing to give as good as he got and Verstappen drove fairly as far as I remember.

My running hypothesis is that Verstappen only really gets the red mist when it's Hamilton for some reason.

The reason this comes to mind now is the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. 2021 was Verstappen vs. Hamilton, and Verstappen's driving was at it's absolute worst. I think that brake check was the worst thing I've seen him do- the top of a long list of bad things. 2022 was vs Leclerc, they exchanged places cleanly and Verstappen was full of praise for Leclerc afterwards. Very similar battle both years actually, gaming the DRS zones.

22,879 posts

147 months