Mid life crisis. Has anybody had one?
Discussion
I really don't know how to categorise how I feel. I haven't been "right" for about 6 years. No coincidence that it's since the year I moved from one end of the country, which I'd been at for 18 years and loved, back to my home town, which is a beloved stag night target for the rest of the country, but isn't where I want to be. I only moved away in the first place, because my other half was living there and wouldn't move north. It worked in my favour, I got used to it and made a great life there. But then she came to love the north, and I agreed to come back.
I feel like I agreed to do something that has with hindsight become, on a personal level, the worst decision I've ever made in life, and is now the source of difficulty at home, because I'll take every opportunity to accept work back there, just to keep the connection. I used most of the money I inherited to finance the move north, and although I have no kids or mortgage, I have no realistic way back into property in the south where I was based.
I should be grateful for what I have, but it's no exaggeration to say I miss my past life more than I ever thought possible, and knowing it's gone for good just compounds it. I think the feelings of loss have helped me become physically unwell this year. I lost 2 stone in 3 months at the start of the year, which is when my last connection property wise to the south went on the market. I've been undergoing tests for various illnesses all year now. It's the only year in my life in which the question of suicide has been a conscious thought. I won't though, I just can't come to terms with being the cause of that much damage to others.
There are other things going on, and I've realised that, however many friends I think I have, I'm not capable of starting a completely open discussion with any of them, so a lot of what I feel remains unspoken. I'm having the worst period of my adult life currently, mid 50s, maybe it falls under the heading of a late mid-life, and will hopefully pass.
I feel like I agreed to do something that has with hindsight become, on a personal level, the worst decision I've ever made in life, and is now the source of difficulty at home, because I'll take every opportunity to accept work back there, just to keep the connection. I used most of the money I inherited to finance the move north, and although I have no kids or mortgage, I have no realistic way back into property in the south where I was based.
I should be grateful for what I have, but it's no exaggeration to say I miss my past life more than I ever thought possible, and knowing it's gone for good just compounds it. I think the feelings of loss have helped me become physically unwell this year. I lost 2 stone in 3 months at the start of the year, which is when my last connection property wise to the south went on the market. I've been undergoing tests for various illnesses all year now. It's the only year in my life in which the question of suicide has been a conscious thought. I won't though, I just can't come to terms with being the cause of that much damage to others.
There are other things going on, and I've realised that, however many friends I think I have, I'm not capable of starting a completely open discussion with any of them, so a lot of what I feel remains unspoken. I'm having the worst period of my adult life currently, mid 50s, maybe it falls under the heading of a late mid-life, and will hopefully pass.
Heaveho said:
I really don't know how to categorise how I feel...
Wow, that sounds incredibly tough, but also sounds clear on how to improve how you feel - you need to move back, as long as you're sure it's what you think it will be.I hear you that it feels very difficult financially and relationship wise, but if the alternative is contemplating suicide, then it seems an easy decision.
Have you talked about how you feel with your partner?
Might be worth taking to a counsellor too - there are online ones now so you don't even need to turn up in person. Better Help is being advertised a lot at the moment.
youngsyr said:
Wow, that sounds incredibly tough, but also sounds clear on how to improve how you feel - you need to move back, as long as you're sure it's what you think it will be.
I hear you that it feels very difficult financially and relationship wise, but if the alternative is contemplating suicide, then it seems an easy decision.
Have you talked about how you feel with your partner?
Might be worth taking to a counsellor too - there are online ones now so you don't even need to turn up in person. Better Help is being advertised a lot at the moment.
Thanks. My partner is great generally, but strangely unsympathetic to this situation. She's very happy living in the north. I did what I thought was the impossible ask and spoke to a counsellor about 5 weeks ago. I'm still processing how I feel about what I got from that.I hear you that it feels very difficult financially and relationship wise, but if the alternative is contemplating suicide, then it seems an easy decision.
Have you talked about how you feel with your partner?
Might be worth taking to a counsellor too - there are online ones now so you don't even need to turn up in person. Better Help is being advertised a lot at the moment.
As an aside, were you on the MLR a few years ago?
I had a crisis of sorts from my second year of university (1997/8) until, arguably, this year -with some ups and downs throughout that time. First World problems, mainly. I've always had a roof over my head and enough money.
My 20s weren't great. Didn't find my niche, ploughed on through jobs I thought I should be doing, didn't take any risks, too conventional. Early 30s a mixed bag, then not great. Late 30s OK. Early 40s another mixed bag.
Now in my mid 40s, I've become more comfortable with who I am and not trying to fit in or be something I'm not. I'm currently happier than I've ever been.
Being lean and fit (and more energetic, enthusiastic, life/multi-skilled and interesting/quirky than most. A Poundland Renaissance man
) makes me stand out from the crowd of typical Dads.
Its a double-edged sword, but I get more attention from attractive women (of my age and a bit younger!) than I ever did when I was single in my 20s....
I do feel that my 20s were a bit of a lost decade and have a bit of regret, although I shouldn't....
..."If I knew then what I know now...."
My 20s weren't great. Didn't find my niche, ploughed on through jobs I thought I should be doing, didn't take any risks, too conventional. Early 30s a mixed bag, then not great. Late 30s OK. Early 40s another mixed bag.
Now in my mid 40s, I've become more comfortable with who I am and not trying to fit in or be something I'm not. I'm currently happier than I've ever been.
Being lean and fit (and more energetic, enthusiastic, life/multi-skilled and interesting/quirky than most. A Poundland Renaissance man
) makes me stand out from the crowd of typical Dads. Its a double-edged sword, but I get more attention from attractive women (of my age and a bit younger!) than I ever did when I was single in my 20s....
I do feel that my 20s were a bit of a lost decade and have a bit of regret, although I shouldn't....
..."If I knew then what I know now...."
Edited by Woodrow Wilson on Thursday 24th November 21:00
I’m a couple of years older than you, graduated in 98.
Like you my 20s were a lost decade. Chronic anxiety and depression for me although a focus on my work/career helped me through. Life changing though.
My now wife whom I got together with at 17 stuck with me through this time. I suppose loyalty, gratitude for this and maybe even security given my fragility at the time(?) meant that as I emerged from it in my late 20s/early 30s stage of life, marriage and kids were inevitable.
But 30 years on and I’m a very different person to the 17 yo kid who copped with the girl with the nice ass. She isn’t. She (literally) does the same admin job as she did then, with zero drive to do anything other be comfortable at home.
So my MLC as per page 1, is the recognition that spending what time I have left with somebody who’s ambition for the next 30 years is to ‘keep home’ is not for me.
Interesting and rather cathartic thread!
Like you my 20s were a lost decade. Chronic anxiety and depression for me although a focus on my work/career helped me through. Life changing though.
My now wife whom I got together with at 17 stuck with me through this time. I suppose loyalty, gratitude for this and maybe even security given my fragility at the time(?) meant that as I emerged from it in my late 20s/early 30s stage of life, marriage and kids were inevitable.
But 30 years on and I’m a very different person to the 17 yo kid who copped with the girl with the nice ass. She isn’t. She (literally) does the same admin job as she did then, with zero drive to do anything other be comfortable at home.
So my MLC as per page 1, is the recognition that spending what time I have left with somebody who’s ambition for the next 30 years is to ‘keep home’ is not for me.
Interesting and rather cathartic thread!
samdy said:
Mirinjawbro said:
then us.
always seeking more, better, bigger, faster
I had a bit of an existential crisis earlier this year where I started questionning all the life choices I'd ever made. Career, marriage, kids, family relationships. Pretty much everything. My head's still not that clear about it all to be honest, it's a work in progress.always seeking more, better, bigger, faster
But what I did realise is I think most of it is down to what you describe here. I'd gone through life always improving, moving onto the next challenge etc. I liken it to an RPG game where you level up really easily at the start but then suddenly everything becomes a grind to move up further levels and the game just becomes boring.
The choice is to abandon the game and start a new one, or push through the grind until you've mastered the current one.
NDNDNDND said:
Read this article the other day, which I thought was helpful.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/...
That looks interesting, I'll have a proper read later.https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/...
PushedDover said:
OP if it makes you fee any better many / most of us will have done the same (spunked money via finance at an early age that in reality did not ‘bring much’ to your overall well-being)
Moving on - and thinking about it in my morning treadmill shuffle, may I suggest some Reading ? Nothing heavy - some books to simply 'nudge' you to change. Innocuous as it is - I read Will Smiths book the other month. Sage lessons in life there.
And perhaps unpopular / cringey - but I have found listening to Chris Evans (now on Virgin) as a good tonic on a morning. The guy has had it all, lost it all and been pretty reflective on it (read his easy to read books ?) but on the whole - gets the importance of mental health.
Priorities. Focusing on the positives. The juice that makes us tick.
If reading is not an option - some podcasts can have the same net effect. Rich Roll has some good ones, the daily Stoic. Even selective stuff from JRE can help broaden the mind.
Priorities. It’s all about priorities.
(edited because of a rushed post via on the iPhone earlier made little sense !)
I have never been a particularly big book reader, fiction really does nothing for me. Not sure why, I do read non fiction, auto biographies, Adrian Newey's How to Build a Car for example. Funnily enough, I have got Will Smith's book on the bookcase to be read, behind a lot of others that I have bought and not got round to.Moving on - and thinking about it in my morning treadmill shuffle, may I suggest some Reading ? Nothing heavy - some books to simply 'nudge' you to change. Innocuous as it is - I read Will Smiths book the other month. Sage lessons in life there.
And perhaps unpopular / cringey - but I have found listening to Chris Evans (now on Virgin) as a good tonic on a morning. The guy has had it all, lost it all and been pretty reflective on it (read his easy to read books ?) but on the whole - gets the importance of mental health.
Priorities. Focusing on the positives. The juice that makes us tick.
If reading is not an option - some podcasts can have the same net effect. Rich Roll has some good ones, the daily Stoic. Even selective stuff from JRE can help broaden the mind.
Priorities. It’s all about priorities.
(edited because of a rushed post via on the iPhone earlier made little sense !)
Edited by PushedDover on Thursday 24th November 10:35
ben5575 said:
I’m a couple of years older than you, graduated in 98.
Like you my 20s were a lost decade. Chronic anxiety and depression for me although a focus on my work/career helped me through. Life changing though.
My now wife whom I got together with at 17 stuck with me through this time. I suppose loyalty, gratitude for this and maybe even security given my fragility at the time(?) meant that as I emerged from it in my late 20s/early 30s stage of life, marriage and kids were inevitable.
But 30 years on and I’m a very different person to the 17 yo kid who copped with the girl with the nice ass. She isn’t. She (literally) does the same admin job as she did then, with zero drive to do anything other be comfortable at home.
So my MLC as per page 1, is the recognition that spending what time I have left with somebody who’s ambition for the next 30 years is to ‘keep home’ is not for me.
Interesting and rather cathartic thread!
It has certainly attracted more interest than I thought it would.Like you my 20s were a lost decade. Chronic anxiety and depression for me although a focus on my work/career helped me through. Life changing though.
My now wife whom I got together with at 17 stuck with me through this time. I suppose loyalty, gratitude for this and maybe even security given my fragility at the time(?) meant that as I emerged from it in my late 20s/early 30s stage of life, marriage and kids were inevitable.
But 30 years on and I’m a very different person to the 17 yo kid who copped with the girl with the nice ass. She isn’t. She (literally) does the same admin job as she did then, with zero drive to do anything other be comfortable at home.
So my MLC as per page 1, is the recognition that spending what time I have left with somebody who’s ambition for the next 30 years is to ‘keep home’ is not for me.
Interesting and rather cathartic thread!
Heaveho said:
youngsyr said:
Wow, that sounds incredibly tough, but also sounds clear on how to improve how you feel - you need to move back, as long as you're sure it's what you think it will be.
I hear you that it feels very difficult financially and relationship wise, but if the alternative is contemplating suicide, then it seems an easy decision.
Have you talked about how you feel with your partner?
Might be worth taking to a counsellor too - there are online ones now so you don't even need to turn up in person. Better Help is being advertised a lot at the moment.
Thanks. My partner is great generally, but strangely unsympathetic to this situation. She's very happy living in the north. I did what I thought was the impossible ask and spoke to a counsellor about 5 weeks ago. I'm still processing how I feel about what I got from that.I hear you that it feels very difficult financially and relationship wise, but if the alternative is contemplating suicide, then it seems an easy decision.
Have you talked about how you feel with your partner?
Might be worth taking to a counsellor too - there are online ones now so you don't even need to turn up in person. Better Help is being advertised a lot at the moment.
As an aside, were you on the MLR a few years ago?
Perhaps you've already found your solution subconsciously though - live up north but work down south as much as possible? Make this your way of life, rather than seemingly feeling bad about it?
Good work on speaking to a counsellor, that's a great first step. Don't feel you have to stick with the first one you try though if you dont feel you got what you need from them - counsellor's vary greatly and another may suit you better.
Yes, was very active on the MLR about a decade ago. Seems like an eternity!
any other podcast recommendations?
ive not been able to read a book for probably 5+ years. i get to the bottom of the page and realised ive daydreamed or not actually read it. try again and same thing.
only youtube videos i can watch without distractions seems to be cars & modding / unitentional ASMR and outakes of shows like afterlife
ive not been able to read a book for probably 5+ years. i get to the bottom of the page and realised ive daydreamed or not actually read it. try again and same thing.
only youtube videos i can watch without distractions seems to be cars & modding / unitentional ASMR and outakes of shows like afterlife
youngsyr said:
That's tricky on the partner side, does she know how strongly you feel about it?
Perhaps you've already found your solution subconsciously though - live up north but work down south as much as possible? Make this your way of life, rather than seemingly feeling bad about it?
Good work on speaking to a counsellor, that's a great first step. Don't feel you have to stick with the first one you try though if you dont feel you got what you need from them - counsellor's vary greatly and another may suit you better.
Yes, was very active on the MLR about a decade ago. Seems like an eternity!
She knows I would move back in an ideal world. I'm happy personally to keep working down there, but she's starting to get irritated by it now. It was never my intention to be completely cut off from the south, and I've made that indisputably clear on multiple occasions. However, the more she seems to settle up here, the less tolerant she seems to become of my views on spending time in the south, regardless of the income it generates.. It'll come to a head at some point, things have been becoming gradually more difficult for about a year now.Perhaps you've already found your solution subconsciously though - live up north but work down south as much as possible? Make this your way of life, rather than seemingly feeling bad about it?
Good work on speaking to a counsellor, that's a great first step. Don't feel you have to stick with the first one you try though if you dont feel you got what you need from them - counsellor's vary greatly and another may suit you better.
Yes, was very active on the MLR about a decade ago. Seems like an eternity!
I can't really decide if the counsellor was worth the effort tbh. I just came away feeling like a total narcissist, even though some things were pointed out to me that hadn't occurred to me to consider. By that, I mean things that I've lost other than my previous life that I hadn't considered might be adding to how I feel about stuff now.
I had a necessary op about a decade ago that I was warned would possibly have negative side effects. In the end I was affected negatively by every possible side effect going and they are constant and life changing. There are also ongoing cancer scares ( nothing has ever actually come of that yet ), and I have to have reasonably regular appointments to check my carotid arteries after one blocked due to trauma from a bike accident in my 20s. I take several meds a day for that, which is dull but keeps me alive.
I didn't really care about the medical stuff when the rest of my life was being lived the way I wanted it, but it's just another thing to deal with now.
It's interesting actually writing this stuff down and reading it back, in some ways possibly better than counselling.
The MLR was an " interesting " place from time to time! I was also very active on there, and still have the car I had when I joined in 2003 or 4 I think.
Heaveho said:
She knows I would move back in an ideal world. I'm happy personally to keep working down there, but she's starting to get irritated by it now. It was never my intention to be completely cut off from the south, and I've made that indisputably clear on multiple occasions. However, the more she seems to settle up here, the less tolerant she seems to become of my views on spending time in the south, regardless of the income it generates.. It'll come to a head at some point, things have been becoming gradually more difficult for about a year now.
I can't really decide if the counsellor was worth the effort tbh. I just came away feeling like a total narcissist, even though some things were pointed out to me that hadn't occurred to me to consider. By that, I mean things that I've lost other than my previous life that I hadn't considered might be adding to how I feel about stuff now.
I had a necessary op about a decade ago that I was warned would possibly have negative side effects. In the end I was affected negatively by every possible side effect going and they are constant and life changing. There are also ongoing cancer scares ( nothing has ever actually come of that yet ), and I have to have reasonably regular appointments to check my carotid arteries after one blocked due to trauma from a bike accident in my 20s. I take several meds a day for that, which is dull but keeps me alive.
I didn't really care about the medical stuff when the rest of my life was being lived the way I wanted it, but it's just another thing to deal with now.
It's interesting actually writing this stuff down and reading it back, in some ways possibly better than counselling.
The MLR was an " interesting " place from time to time! I was also very active on there, and still have the car I had when I joined in 2003 or 4 I think.
what sort of questions do they ask?I can't really decide if the counsellor was worth the effort tbh. I just came away feeling like a total narcissist, even though some things were pointed out to me that hadn't occurred to me to consider. By that, I mean things that I've lost other than my previous life that I hadn't considered might be adding to how I feel about stuff now.
I had a necessary op about a decade ago that I was warned would possibly have negative side effects. In the end I was affected negatively by every possible side effect going and they are constant and life changing. There are also ongoing cancer scares ( nothing has ever actually come of that yet ), and I have to have reasonably regular appointments to check my carotid arteries after one blocked due to trauma from a bike accident in my 20s. I take several meds a day for that, which is dull but keeps me alive.
I didn't really care about the medical stuff when the rest of my life was being lived the way I wanted it, but it's just another thing to deal with now.
It's interesting actually writing this stuff down and reading it back, in some ways possibly better than counselling.
The MLR was an " interesting " place from time to time! I was also very active on there, and still have the car I had when I joined in 2003 or 4 I think.
i mean, for me, i just prefer life 10 years ago. i can't see how any amount of talking or questions could fix that.
I’m mid 50’s and can relate to a lot of what has been mentioned already. Too much lingering in the past has been a common theme for me for several years now. I had some wonderful times in the past and you expect these huge highs to last forever , which of course they don’t.
It also feels to me like the world has changed considerably over the last 5 years or so and coming to terms with this is very difficult. Does every “older” generation see it this way , or have things just seemed to have gotten out of control way too fast ?
It also feels to me like the world has changed considerably over the last 5 years or so and coming to terms with this is very difficult. Does every “older” generation see it this way , or have things just seemed to have gotten out of control way too fast ?
Mirinjawbro said:
what sort of questions do they ask?
i mean, for me, i just prefer life 10 years ago. i can't see how any amount of talking or questions could fix that.
They don't tend to ask questions. The preferred method is to encourage you to waffle on, they stay quiet, and occasionally interject with something based on what they seem to regard as relevant to why you feel how you do. I don't think I really got anything meaningful especially from it, perhaps came away with a slightly less critical view of myself based on realising what I've actually been through in life.i mean, for me, i just prefer life 10 years ago. i can't see how any amount of talking or questions could fix that.
I imagine your background is fairly important as to how you develop as a person. I'm your stereotypical council estate, broken home, grew up in what would be called poverty now, rebellious type. Parents split when I was 4, didn't see my dad for 14 years at one stage, chose ( fortunately, and with blessed self awareness ) not to have kids, because I'm just like my dad and he was a f
king idiot. I'm pretty typically insecure as a result of all that. I'm a marriage down because of the kids decision, and I gave up my entire life at the end of the 11 years that relationship lasted to move south. That meant my first wife, job, house, pets, friends, everything I'd become accustomed to by the age of 32 went out of the window in the space of 3 months at the end of 1998. I'm 24 years in with my current wife, but as said, things not great at the mo.Opening up to someone who is at liberty to keep things confidential and who you never have to see again should you choose not to, does have benefits.
well im sure id overrun my session with the crap i can talk. but thanks
by coincidence this came onto my youtube list (maybe i should delete)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdZJIzxvtVs
ABELARD: TEENAGE MOVIE ENDING CREDITS
from 1 minute on it instantly takes me back 10 years. no idea why. i never knew this song then.
very strange how sounds can do it though.
by coincidence this came onto my youtube list (maybe i should delete)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdZJIzxvtVs
ABELARD: TEENAGE MOVIE ENDING CREDITS
from 1 minute on it instantly takes me back 10 years. no idea why. i never knew this song then.
very strange how sounds can do it though.
Doofus said:
I've recently become obsessed with ensuring my wife can find all the bank and investment accounts and the contact details and passwords for them, plus paperwork for cars and houses, and who to contact to sell the cars.
I'm cataloging artwork, jewellery and other valuable items, service providers, insurers and so on.
She probably knows a lot of this already but I've become concerned about leaving her with a mess to sort out.
My wife suggested I should do this - suffice to say i am keeping an eye out for banana skins on the stairs and viewing any cups of tea with suspicion, but i should be safe enough if I havent put things in orderI'm cataloging artwork, jewellery and other valuable items, service providers, insurers and so on.
She probably knows a lot of this already but I've become concerned about leaving her with a mess to sort out.
ben5575 said:
My now wife whom I got together with at 17 stuck with me through this time. I suppose loyalty, gratitude for this and maybe even security given my fragility at the time(?) meant that as I emerged from it in my late 20s/early 30s stage of life, marriage and kids were inevitable.
But 30 years on and I’m a very different person to the 17 yo kid who copped with the girl with the nice ass. She isn’t. She (literally) does the same admin job as she did then, with zero drive to do anything other be comfortable at home.
I do wonder about the various people I know who have partners that they met in their teens, 25+ years ago. There must be a lot who have changed significantly during that time. Especially so if one of them has really let themselves go (physically or interests/enthusiasm-wise) But 30 years on and I’m a very different person to the 17 yo kid who copped with the girl with the nice ass. She isn’t. She (literally) does the same admin job as she did then, with zero drive to do anything other be comfortable at home.
I met my wife when I was 29, so I had grown up and gone through a bit of reflection by that point. My wife has looked after herself and we are both quite enthsiasiatic about things and we talk to each other a lot -a seemingly fairly rare phenomenon from what I observe!
Counselling is not to be sniffed at. But it’s not easy, and it can take time to find the right person. And the process itself takes time - you won’t sort this st out in one session..!
I’ve used a leadership coach (different context, I admit) and found things very uncomfortable at times. But ultimately it has proven useful.
I’m with many of you - and the article linked above very nearly described me: mid 40s, solid family life, excellent career. And, in spite of my outward demeanour, inside I’m wondering where it’s all gone wrong. Objectively life is great, and yet there’s a gaping hole….
t out in one session..! I’ve used a leadership coach (different context, I admit) and found things very uncomfortable at times. But ultimately it has proven useful.
I’m with many of you - and the article linked above very nearly described me: mid 40s, solid family life, excellent career. And, in spite of my outward demeanour, inside I’m wondering where it’s all gone wrong. Objectively life is great, and yet there’s a gaping hole….
OMITN said:
I’m with many of you - and the article linked above very nearly described me: mid 40s, solid family life, excellent career. And, in spite of my outward demeanour, inside I’m wondering where it’s all gone wrong. Objectively life is great, and yet there’s a gaping hole….
As part of some personal development work (SLA level 7) I've just been introduced to the theory of career planning/personal goal mapping. I've not done any in depth look into Supers theory yet (dissertation deadline is ages away 
), but on the face of it seem to make sense.....I wonder if many of us get 'stuck' at the 'maintenance' phase after spending the previous 20 years working to a specific goal?Like a kid dreaming about Xmas, but actually once the present is unwrapped, the excitement is gone and its a case of, nann, not bothered what's next??
Am actually in the process of applying for a more senior role at work. To me the role is quite a step up in responsibility so I wanted to seek some counsel from those whom have done it and progressed to understand the detail etc. But to my surprise the first question all my mentors whom I look up to ( all have very senior national level responsibilities) have asked me is 'what's your plan in 5-10 years'. Their outlook on life clearly isn't just how do your current job well (that's an assumption), but more what/where is next challenge.....
Those who I look up to at work aren't in any form ot 'decline' regardless of their age - quite the opposite. It'll be interesting to see how much critic there is on Supers theory of development. I don't see my self just been in a 'maintaining' phase for the next 20 years just because am in a certain age bracket. I also have zero thoughts on wishing to be 20/30 again, quite the opposite, the next 5-10 years certainly career wise has the potential to be far more exciting/testing than the journey/work needed to get to the position am in now.
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 27th November 08:24
Woodrow Wilson said:
lMy wife has looked after herself and we are both quite enthsiasiatic about things and we talk to each other a lot -a seemingly fairly rare phenomenon from what I observe!
Neither of us like been seen as the 'lower' ranked one in the household. If one of us goes one step up the ladder, the other will want to go 2 steps up! If I get the role am aiming for this year I'm almost certain it'll be the motivation she needs to ask/demand a chair as recognition for her work. We are abit 'sad' at home, after the usual school/kid chat, it's mainly conversations about work, and than more work. For us our careers define us, which I'm increasingly aware is not the norm or the aspiration for most of our friends/family.
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