Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet???

Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet???

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Discussion

limpsfield

5,571 posts

240 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
SteveKTMer said:
Fastlane said:
... I am still never going back to an ICE daily.
Just out of interest, what do you think are the most compelling reasons to stay with an EV ?
If I can chip in on this as well...

Cost is one thing for me - apart from actually buying the car, of course.
It costs me around £6 for a full tank >250miles on overnight charging. I've done over 30,000 miles in the last 2.5 years. That tarriff does expire in the summer so will be more expensive from then.

Mid-range acceleration - if there's a gap on a NSL you can normally over take quite easily. Makes the daily mundane stuff a bit more fun.

Company car/low BIK - I run mine through the business which makes it cheap for me.

I used to have a BMW M240 before which was a great car as a daily and would have again, but don't love enough to switch back.

I think for the everyday driving stuff then I would always have an EV of some sort. Three years ago I wouldn't even have considered it.

But, if I couldn't charge at home then I wouldn't have one at the moment.

Fastlane

947 posts

204 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
SteveKTMer said:
Just out of interest, what do you think are the most compelling reasons to stay with an EV ?
Relaxing to drive, ease of home charging, cheap to fuel, cheap to service, effortless and discrete performance and as a company owner, the tax benefits. I am also increasingly aware that fossil fuel reliance is not making the world a better place.

Diderot

5,796 posts

179 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Fastlane said:
SteveKTMer said:
Just out of interest, what do you think are the most compelling reasons to stay with an EV ?
Relaxing to drive, ease of home charging, cheap to fuel, cheap to service, effortless and discrete performance and as a company owner, the tax benefits.
As above.

Puzzles

688 posts

98 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Fastlane said:
SteveKTMer said:
Just out of interest, what do you think are the most compelling reasons to stay with an EV ?
Relaxing to drive, ease of home charging, cheap to fuel, cheap to service, effortless and discrete performance and as a company owner, the tax benefits. I am also increasingly aware that fossil fuel reliance is not making the world a better place.
+1

Also living in a city and having the stupidly loud pops from exhausts has put me off any noise.

Edited by Puzzles on Tuesday 21st March 19:27

AstonZagato

11,605 posts

197 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
off_again said:
SWoll said:
This is why we'll be dropping the do it all EV this year and moving to a 2 car setup. EV city car for everyday local stuff and an ICE for high days and holidays. Life's too short for charging stress when you're trying to have a fun weekend/week away and need petrol back in my life after 4 years of EV only.
Exactly the same reasons why we sold our i3. EV was great for the time and situation we had it. Worked brilliantly. Lots and lots of short trips in and around the local area. The occasional longer one but less than 100 miles in total. All good. Kids have left and no need for an EV at the moment. I am lucky enough to have the ability to change and sold the i3 for the same price I paid for it. Great, take the win and move on.

Now things are shifting again with our lives, a longer range EV actually fits well and we are looking at options. Its all about the use cases - and if it works, its great. When it doesnt, time for a change. Seems utterly fair to me!
I currently have an EV, a PHEV and an ICE. It works pretty well.
The EV gets the most miles - silent, swift, cheap, comfortable, easy.
The ICE is a fun car - a V12.
The PHEV does short commutes to the station but also does long trips where charging would be an unknown or an inconvenience (often I would have guns, ammo and dogs in the car so stopping for a long period in service stations in not great).
Even so, I'm thinking of moving away from the PHEV to a full EV is I can find one that can go off-road.

vikingaero

8,591 posts

156 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
I was watching the VW T6 electric van on Artisan Electrics YouTube channel last night where he did a London to Paris type run (and failed).

What amazed me was the range - 40-50 miles! Seriously? In a tradesmans van? I think he is based in Cambs and must be charging the thing hourly - drive to a customer, install an EV charger, find somewhere to charge, drive to next customer, find somewhere to charge... seriously what a waste of a nice van. Seems that VW wanted an electric van asap at any cost and that cost being 40-50 range. Even the hated Mitsubishi i-MiEV/Pug Ion/C-zero has better range than that!

SpeckledJim

30,439 posts

240 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
vikingaero said:
I was watching the VW T6 electric van on Artisan Electrics YouTube channel last night where he did a London to Paris type run (and failed).

What amazed me was the range - 40-50 miles! Seriously? In a tradesmans van? I think he is based in Cambs and must be charging the thing hourly - drive to a customer, install an EV charger, find somewhere to charge, drive to next customer, find somewhere to charge... seriously what a waste of a nice van. Seems that VW wanted an electric van asap at any cost and that cost being 40-50 range. Even the hated Mitsubishi i-MiEV/Pug Ion/C-zero has better range than that!
VW have little reason to make a T6 any more expensive to produce than it absolutely has to be. They'll sell them at a mad price to a mad poseur regardless of how poor a product it might be.


SpeckledJim

30,439 posts

240 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Diderot said:
Fastlane said:
SteveKTMer said:
Just out of interest, what do you think are the most compelling reasons to stay with an EV ?
Relaxing to drive, ease of home charging, cheap to fuel, cheap to service, effortless and discrete performance and as a company owner, the tax benefits.
As above.
And me.

EV could be as expensive to run, as frequent to break, as expensive to tax, service and repair, and even make me stand in the cold in a puddle of diesel once a week and I'd still choose one over an ICE for a daily.

It's just a nicer way of moving down the road.

bigothunter

7,353 posts

47 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Announced today - Ford Explorer Electric for Europe. Assuming it makes profit, will be interesting to discover projected sales volume and market share. I can't find a unique thread on this new Ford EV so here it is smile


Olivergt

1,211 posts

68 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
whirlybird said:
EV's are too expensive, don't travel as far as promised/suggested, have poor national recharging outlets and still pollute the air we breath, with excessive tyre wear and brake dust etc. So, if you've spunked your own or your bosses cash on one off these 'alternatively powered transport systems", then as far as I'm concerned then yes, you have been conned. laugh
You need to stop trying to use lies as you keep getting caught out with them.

Namely:

Excessive tyre and brake wear, these are simply lies, EV's do not generate excessive tyre or brake wear compared to ICE cars.

In fact for Brake Wear, ICE cars are excessive compared to EV's which use regenerative braking, this doesn't use the disc/pads to slow down, so there is 0 brake wear during this phase of slowing down. But of course you know this, as others have already pointed it out.

Here some sources for this fact:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/...

https://l2sfbc.com/do-evs-wear-their-tyres-more-th...

https://www.kwik-fit.com/blog/electric-car-tyre-we...

Unless you have some respected sources for your information, just stop lying, it doesn't do your arguement any favours, in fact people are less inclined to believe anything you say as you have been shown to be a liar.

Feel free to discuss, both Tyre and Brake wear between ICE and EV's, but provide sources for your information as I have above and will also in any further replies.


whirlybird

Original Poster:

606 posts

174 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Olivergt said:
whirlybird said:
EV's are too expensive, don't travel as far as promised/suggested, have poor national recharging outlets and still pollute the air we breath, with excessive tyre wear and brake dust etc. So, if you've spunked your own or your bosses cash on one off these 'alternatively powered transport systems", then as far as I'm concerned then yes, you have been conned. laugh
You need to stop trying to use lies as you keep getting caught out with them.

Namely:

Excessive tyre and brake wear, these are simply lies, EV's do not generate excessive tyre or brake wear compared to ICE cars.

In fact for Brake Wear, ICE cars are excessive compared to EV's which use regenerative braking, this doesn't use the disc/pads to slow down, so there is 0 brake wear during this phase of slowing down. But of course you know this, as others have already pointed it out.

Here some sources for this fact:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/...

https://l2sfbc.com/do-evs-wear-their-tyres-more-th...

https://www.kwik-fit.com/blog/electric-car-tyre-we...

Unless you have some respected sources for your information, just stop lying, it doesn't do your arguement any favours, in fact people are less inclined to believe anything you say as you have been shown to be a liar.

Feel free to discuss, both Tyre and Brake wear between ICE and EV's, but provide sources for your information as I have above and will also in any further replies.
EV's are more expensive relative to ICE cars of similar size and spec ;TRUE
EV's often do not travel as far as manufacturers idictate, Especially in cold weather ;TRUE
ICE cars can rely on engine braking 'TRUE

"From the Continental tyre Website",
Increased weight means longer braking distance, high instant torque means high tire wear
Compared to combustion cars, electric drive technology lowers engine noise, emissions, maintenance and running costs. However, one consequence of the many electric vehicle benefits is a significant increase in weight. Batteries are heavy and their weight places additional strain on electric car tires.

Electric engine torque also has a positive and negative side. On the one hand, it means instant acceleration. On the other hand, this high instant torque places additional strain on the tires.

https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tire-knowled...
So whos a liar now ? Oh, and where did I 'lie' ??? rolleyes


Edited by whirlybird on Tuesday 21st March 16:40

Olivergt

1,211 posts

68 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
whirlybird said:
Olivergt said:
whirlybird said:
EV's are too expensive, don't travel as far as promised/suggested, have poor national recharging outlets and still pollute the air we breath, with excessive tyre wear and brake dust etc. So, if you've spunked your own or your bosses cash on one off these 'alternatively powered transport systems", then as far as I'm concerned then yes, you have been conned. laugh
You need to stop trying to use lies as you keep getting caught out with them.

Namely:

Excessive tyre and brake wear, these are simply lies, EV's do not generate excessive tyre or brake wear compared to ICE cars.

In fact for Brake Wear, ICE cars are excessive compared to EV's which use regenerative braking, this doesn't use the disc/pads to slow down, so there is 0 brake wear during this phase of slowing down. But of course you know this, as others have already pointed it out.

Here some sources for this fact:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/...

https://l2sfbc.com/do-evs-wear-their-tyres-more-th...

https://www.kwik-fit.com/blog/electric-car-tyre-we...

Unless you have some respected sources for your information, just stop lying, it doesn't do your arguement any favours, in fact people are less inclined to believe anything you say as you have been shown to be a liar.

Feel free to discuss, both Tyre and Brake wear between ICE and EV's, but provide sources for your information as I have above and will also in any further replies.
EV's are more expensive relative to ICE cars of similar size and spec ;TRUE
EV's often do not travel as far as manufacturers idictate, Especially in cold weather ;TRUE
ICE cars can rely on engine braking 'TRUE

"From the Continental tyre Website",
Increased weight means longer braking distance, high instant torque means high tire wear
Compared to combustion cars, electric drive technology lowers engine noise, emissions, maintenance and running costs. However, one consequence of the many electric vehicle benefits is a significant increase in weight. Batteries are heavy and their weight places additional strain on electric car tires.

Electric engine torque also has a positive and negative side. On the one hand, it means instant acceleration. On the other hand, this high instant torque places additional strain on the tires.

https://www.continental-tires.com/car/tire-knowled...
So whos a liar now ? Oh, and where did I 'lie' ??? rolleyes


Edited by whirlybird on Tuesday 21st March 16:40
Firstly, let's keep the discussion on Tyre and Brake wear as that is what I called you out on.

Secondly, you lied about Brake wear, there is no evidence anywhere to show that EV's are heavier on Brakes, on the contrary, there is a lot of evidence to show that EVs are exceptionally light on brakes due to regeneration being used to slow you down instead of the brakes.

And finally, the link you provided is in direct contradiction to the link I provided from kwik-fit.

So, how do we find out who is correct? And remember you are using the word "Excessive" Tyre wear here.

So, while I am doing additional research, please define what you mean by "Excessive".

There are a number of claims as to why Tyre Wear is different between EV's and ICE.

Increased Weight - I will find some comparisons for comparable vehicles.
Increased Torque - only applies if you use the additional torque and is countered by the fact there are no pulses that you get on an ICE car, I will provide links.



whirlybird

Original Poster:

606 posts

174 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
OK, let's just get a bit real here,
Who do YOU believe, Kwik-Fit (The tyre fitters)
or Continental, the tyre manufacturers, ????
(ps; as your a newbie to this thread I'll let you off, as I'm a Skoda fan too) biglaugh

Edited by whirlybird on Tuesday 21st March 17:18


Edited by whirlybird on Tuesday 21st March 20:44

Olivergt

1,211 posts

68 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
whirlybird said:
OK, let's just get a bit real here,
Who do YOU believe, Kwik-Fit (The tire fitters)
or Continental, the tire manufacturers, ????
That's just the think though isn't it, it got nothing to do with who I believe, or who you believe has it.

It's about who is telling the truth, so how do we find that out?

This is from the RAC site referenced earlier:

"As for the EVs on the road today, their tyre wear is nowhere near as accelerated as some naysayers suggest."

From Nokian Tyres

"Contrary to what many people think, EV drivers need not worry about rapid tire wear. Tires on electric vehicles will often wear down more slowly than in cars with internal combustion engines."

https://www.nokiantyres.com/company/news-article/t...

And aparently, if you buy tyres specifically for an EV they last longer than ICE tyres:

https://autoexhaustandtyres.co.uk/news/do-electric...

And this final one fits your narrative and shows that research by kwik-fit has seen about a 4% difference between EV and ICE.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/tyre-...

Is 4% "Excessive" in your opinion?





whirlybird

Original Poster:

606 posts

174 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
beer

Scrimpton

12,245 posts

224 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
The brake pads on my Ioniq were noted as 10% worn when serviced at 18,500 miles last month. Not excessive to my mind, and it's not just been driven in stop start traffic either.

AMV93

778 posts

79 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
I’ve had my XC40 Recharge for 7 months now (company car) and I’m at the point where I’m probably going to chop it for a PHEV. On Volvo’s scheme you can change cars every 3 months without penalty, which was the reason for me going with them as I wanted to see if the EV really worked.

My ‘daily’ combo has been the Volvo and a Macan GTS up to this point, which in parts has worked well but not so in others. I live 1.5 miles from work so for commuting the EV is perfect. I’m also right on the edge of town, so the Volvo keys are the ones we always seem to grab. Paying £40 per month for a nice new car is also a real bonus, and charging it on an overnight tariff means it’s not expensive to run. However, using it for work trips is painful as to get from the Midlands to, say, the M4 corridor uses almost all the battery, so I’ve found myself just taking the Macan to save the hassle. As public rapid charging is now so expensive the cost differential isn’t huge (and the Macan is awful on petrol!) 5ppm doesn’t go very far when it’s 80ppkw!

Whilst the Macan is still worth almost what I paid for it (new) just under a year ago I’m sorely tempted to just chop that in and have an XC70 PHEV as a do it all. The BiK is still under £200 a month and it’ll do everything I need it to. I have other weekend toys so although the Macan is brilliant I just don’t see the point in running 2 cars anymore, even if on paper the second one is ‘only’ 40 quid a month.

SpeckledJim

30,439 posts

240 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
AMV93 said:
I’ve had my XC40 Recharge for 7 months now (company car) and I’m at the point where I’m probably going to chop it for a PHEV. On Volvo’s scheme you can change cars every 3 months without penalty, which was the reason for me going with them as I wanted to see if the EV really worked.

My ‘daily’ combo has been the Volvo and a Macan GTS up to this point, which in parts has worked well but not so in others. I live 1.5 miles from work so for commuting the EV is perfect. I’m also right on the edge of town, so the Volvo keys are the ones we always seem to grab. Paying £40 per month for a nice new car is also a real bonus, and charging it on an overnight tariff means it’s not expensive to run. However, using it for work trips is painful as to get from the Midlands to, say, the M4 corridor uses almost all the battery, so I’ve found myself just taking the Macan to save the hassle. As public rapid charging is now so expensive the cost differential isn’t huge (and the Macan is awful on petrol!) 5ppm doesn’t go very far when it’s 80ppkw!

Whilst the Macan is still worth almost what I paid for it (new) just under a year ago I’m sorely tempted to just chop that in and have an XC70 PHEV as a do it all. The BiK is still under £200 a month and it’ll do everything I need it to. I have other weekend toys so although the Macan is brilliant I just don’t see the point in running 2 cars anymore, even if on paper the second one is ‘only’ 40 quid a month.
If most of your motoring is very short journeys, and you can charge at home, but you regularly have a decent distance to cover, then I'd say you're right.

GT9

4,310 posts

159 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
whirlybird said:
OK, let's just get a bit real here,
Who do YOU believe, Kwik-Fit (The tire fitters)
or Continental, the tire manufacturers, ????
The secret is to fit tyres, not tires, that massively changes the wear rate.

Undercover McNoName

1,331 posts

152 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
AMV93 said:
I’ve had my XC40 Recharge for 7 months now (company car) and I’m at the point where I’m probably going to chop it for a PHEV. On Volvo’s scheme you can change cars every 3 months without penalty, which was the reason for me going with them as I wanted to see if the EV really worked.

My ‘daily’ combo has been the Volvo and a Macan GTS up to this point, which in parts has worked well but not so in others. I live 1.5 miles from work so for commuting the EV is perfect. I’m also right on the edge of town, so the Volvo keys are the ones we always seem to grab. Paying £40 per month for a nice new car is also a real bonus, and charging it on an overnight tariff means it’s not expensive to run. However, using it for work trips is painful as to get from the Midlands to, say, the M4 corridor uses almost all the battery, so I’ve found myself just taking the Macan to save the hassle. As public rapid charging is now so expensive the cost differential isn’t huge (and the Macan is awful on petrol!) 5ppm doesn’t go very far when it’s 80ppkw!

Whilst the Macan is still worth almost what I paid for it (new) just under a year ago I’m sorely tempted to just chop that in and have an XC70 PHEV as a do it all. The BiK is still under £200 a month and it’ll do everything I need it to. I have other weekend toys so although the Macan is brilliant I just don’t see the point in running 2 cars anymore, even if on paper the second one is ‘only’ 40 quid a month.
A new car to commute 1.5 miles, no surprise you brits are a bit lardy.