Replacement for a Z4
Discussion
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.S2000?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127...
AS others have said try the 2.7 Boxster.
Clean example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115582744191?hash=item1...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127...
AS others have said try the 2.7 Boxster.
Clean example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115582744191?hash=item1...
GreatGranny said:
S2000?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127...
AS others have said try the 2.7 Boxster.
Clean example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115582744191?hash=item1...
Any idea of their reliability?https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202207127...
AS others have said try the 2.7 Boxster.
Clean example:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115582744191?hash=item1...
Llew said:
….they feel generally a bit "muted"
Perfect description I think. Great cars though, especially for the price. jm8403 said:
Yes, apologies, I see what you mean now. I still think a modified Z4 (lsd, suspension + breaks) a better car (for me) as I like the way a rwd feels when the engine is up front. I guess this is why some prefer Z4M's and F types v's Caymans/boxsters, they're all good.
I’d have loved to have modified my wife’s Z4 but I know how the conversation would have gone 
Porsches for sure are more chuckable than the Z4, but isnt that the point. Its like when people point fingers at things like the 350z and compare it to a Porsche, they are designed for two very separate things. The Z4 is wonderfully designed as a GT car, the Boxster isnt. I am amazed how much this debate comes around comparing apples with oranges and only looking at how citrusy each is.
Thanks for ideas though, I think many are starting to float well out of budget especially things like Corvettes and Porsches!
Thanks for ideas though, I think many are starting to float well out of budget especially things like Corvettes and Porsches!
As biased as I am I'd chuck in a recommendation for a Z4M.
I was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
I was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
I loved my Z4.
I know Porsche has scared you off but from the opening line I thought something like this... https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14245844
I know Porsche has scared you off but from the opening line I thought something like this... https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14245844
AB said:
I loved my Z4.
I know Porsche has scared you off but from the opening line I thought something like this... https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14245844
Any idea reliability of these?I know Porsche has scared you off but from the opening line I thought something like this... https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/14245844
jm8403 said:
Sycamore said:
Networkgeek said:
Sycamore said:
I went from my 3.0 Z4 to a GT86.
Won't have the sound and speed, but GT86 was much more fun
Won't have the sound and speed, but GT86 was much more fun
Really? There's not a chance in hell a flat four, 2.0 N/A engine would be more fun than a smooth, torquey 3.0 IL6. I've driven both (on road and track) and the GT86 is really not to my taste. Underpowered, sound like a wet fart, but they look cool (when modified). The Z4 is a far superior car, both in terms of performance and design.
However, a turbocharged GT86 is a different kettle of fish. It's just what the car needs, anyone who says otherwise is some kind of croc-wearing, beardy weirdo. 250+ BHP is exactly what the 86 needs, if I was looking to spend 15k on a sports car, I would be very tempted to buy one (pre-modified)
The GT86 engine is s
t, the Z4 engine is awesome. All I said, was that I found the GT86 more fun to chuck around.
If we all liked the same thing, life would be boring
Relax old chap
The wheels are too big, and the ride quality suffers from a lack of sidewall. The rear tyres are too wide, which results in an inert, understeery front end, and a back end that's hard to move under power. The suspension is too stiff (classic BMW), and the rebound is set way too high to enjoy bumpy/undulating roads.
On the other hand, you can absolutely hurl a GT86 down a B-road and have a wail of a time. Ask Chris Harris what he thinks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&ab...
Sometimes the extra power doesn't make a car more enjoyable, unless you just like driving fast in a straight line.
C70R said:
It's really not a good British B-road car. Partly because it was conceived as a boulevard cruiser.
The wheels are too big, and the ride quality suffers from a lack of sidewall. The rear tyres are too wide, which results in an inert, understeery front end, and a back end that's hard to move under power. The suspension is too stiff (classic BMW), and the rebound is set way too high to enjoy bumpy/undulating roads.
On the other hand, you can absolutely hurl a GT86 down a B-road and have a wail of a time. Ask Chris Harris what he thinks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&ab...
Sometimes the extra power doesn't make a car more enjoyable, unless you just like driving fast in a straight line.
Or just that some people prefer different things, imagine that. The wheels are too big, and the ride quality suffers from a lack of sidewall. The rear tyres are too wide, which results in an inert, understeery front end, and a back end that's hard to move under power. The suspension is too stiff (classic BMW), and the rebound is set way too high to enjoy bumpy/undulating roads.
On the other hand, you can absolutely hurl a GT86 down a B-road and have a wail of a time. Ask Chris Harris what he thinks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&ab...
Sometimes the extra power doesn't make a car more enjoyable, unless you just like driving fast in a straight line.
jm8403 said:
C70R said:
It's really not a good British B-road car. Partly because it was conceived as a boulevard cruiser.
The wheels are too big, and the ride quality suffers from a lack of sidewall. The rear tyres are too wide, which results in an inert, understeery front end, and a back end that's hard to move under power. The suspension is too stiff (classic BMW), and the rebound is set way too high to enjoy bumpy/undulating roads.
On the other hand, you can absolutely hurl a GT86 down a B-road and have a wail of a time. Ask Chris Harris what he thinks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&ab...
Sometimes the extra power doesn't make a car more enjoyable, unless you just like driving fast in a straight line.
Or just that some people prefer different things, imagine that. The wheels are too big, and the ride quality suffers from a lack of sidewall. The rear tyres are too wide, which results in an inert, understeery front end, and a back end that's hard to move under power. The suspension is too stiff (classic BMW), and the rebound is set way too high to enjoy bumpy/undulating roads.
On the other hand, you can absolutely hurl a GT86 down a B-road and have a wail of a time. Ask Chris Harris what he thinks... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4&ab...
Sometimes the extra power doesn't make a car more enjoyable, unless you just like driving fast in a straight line.
Llew said:
benny.c said:
In comparison to her Z4 the Boxster feels much more nimble and the handling is more precise. It has nicely weighted steering with bags of grip. The Z4 had plenty of grip too but you could never really feel it properly with that slightly vague, floaty feeling they have. I love a BMW straight six but the Boxster sounds superb at high revs and is plenty fast enough for the road even in none S form. The Z4 was fun but more GT than sports car, for me anyway.
I totally agree - Z4's are great cars in many ways (ignoring the 4 pots) but compared with a Boxster they feel generally a bit "muted" is how I'd describe it, slightly stifled engine note, lack of feel from the steering and generally not very "sharp"... They make great all round GT's and at less than half the cost of any equivalent Boxster/Cayman they represent good value I think.msportpanda said:
As biased as I am I'd chuck in a recommendation for a Z4M.
I was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
I didn't have a problem with the steering on my Z4M either, I just didn't get on with the ride/suspension/gearbox all that well though. I thought the S54 was a very special engine for sure(albeit too quiet for my taste ideally as standard). I was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
msportpanda said:
As biased as I am I'd chuck in a recommendation for a Z4M.
I was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
Yep all good stuff but well out of budget so not a considerationI was looking originally for a vx220/elise but being on the larger side and having long legs I couldn't fold myself into a comfortable enough position to fit in one so looked at roadsters like; S2000, Boxster/Cayman S, Z4m, 370Z and a couple of others.
I ended up with a Z4M and I'm absolutely chuffed with it.
The 3.2 engine gives it more of a hoony feel with peak power at 8,000RPM and it makes you want to work the engine hard and use the gearbox. The engine sounds absolutely incredible with it's ITBs, you'll rev match every shift to hear it and really feels a lot more special than the non M 6 pots. LSD makes for a really compliant rear end and a bit of sideways action should you feel like it.
I have 19" CSL style wheels on mine with Pilot Sport 4s' and rear polybushes and can hand on heart say that I have no complaints about its cornering abilities. I find it a huge amount of fun and actually quite communicative. I read countless negative reviews about the steering but from my perspective it's the best feeling steering I've ever had in a car (first M car but had an E36 328i, E46 330ci and MX5 prior).
coldel said:
BBR MX5s again heard not positive things about them in terms of reliability, but again I guess you only hear the bad stuff.
I'm not going to try and change your mind, but I'd be interested about what, and from whom you heard that. I've had my BBR Super 200 NC for nearly a year now, and until whatever suspension part failed at xmas (not a BBR component), it has been super reliable despite having nearly 140k on the clock. I've had a similar(ish) car history to yourself OP, and rank this as one of the most fun cars I've had, but I've not had a VX220. I would imagine the BBR would be a good middle ground between your bigger sports cars like your Z4 or a Boxster / Cayman / 3x0Z in that it's reasonably refined, but still light and raw enough to be engaging.
I have no other input really, except to say I'm interested to see what you end up with. I have also had a Z4 3.0Si Coupe and they are great cars I reckon. OK not the best ride and handling, and the exhaust note needs liberating, but they feel quite special to me. Given the all-round capability and running costs, I think it would be a fairly difficult car to replace in many respects.
I've had a 986 Boxster S too, and while the Porsche is definitely a sweeter handling car, I wouldn't say it felt massively more fun than the Z4, but there was always that thing in the back of my mind about it presenting me with an enormous bill. That said, it hasn't stopped me thinking about a Cayman, but see the point about enormous bills
The 370Z is said by some to be a much better chassis than the 350Z but I haven't driven a 370Z to confirm.
GT86 with some mods would be a good shout, wouldn't have a standard one though personally. I think like the NC MX5, it needs a few small mods to get it where it should have been in the first place.
TameRacingDriver said:
I'm not going to try and change your mind, but I'd be interested about what, and from whom you heard that. I've had my BBR Super 200 NC for nearly a year now, and until whatever suspension part failed at xmas (not a BBR component), it has been super reliable despite having nearly 140k on the clock.
I've had a similar(ish) car history to yourself OP, and rank this as one of the most fun cars I've had, but I've not had a VX220. I would imagine the BBR would be a good middle ground between your bigger sports cars like your Z4 or a Boxster / Cayman / 3x0Z in that it's reasonably refined, but still light and raw enough to be engaging.
I have no other input really, except to say I'm interested to see what you end up with. I have also had a Z4 3.0Si Coupe and they are great cars I reckon. OK not the best ride and handling, and the exhaust note needs liberating, but they feel quite special to me. Given the all-round capability and running costs, I think it would be a fairly difficult car to replace in many respects.
I've had a 986 Boxster S too, and while the Porsche is definitely a sweeter handling car, I wouldn't say it felt massively more fun than the Z4, but there was always that thing in the back of my mind about it presenting me with an enormous bill. That said, it hasn't stopped me thinking about a Cayman, but see the point about enormous bills
The 370Z is said by some to be a much better chassis than the 350Z but I haven't driven a 370Z to confirm.
GT86 with some mods would be a good shout, wouldn't have a standard one though personally. I think like the NC MX5, it needs a few small mods to get it where it should have been in the first place.
Super helpful thanks a really good write up. I've had a similar(ish) car history to yourself OP, and rank this as one of the most fun cars I've had, but I've not had a VX220. I would imagine the BBR would be a good middle ground between your bigger sports cars like your Z4 or a Boxster / Cayman / 3x0Z in that it's reasonably refined, but still light and raw enough to be engaging.
I have no other input really, except to say I'm interested to see what you end up with. I have also had a Z4 3.0Si Coupe and they are great cars I reckon. OK not the best ride and handling, and the exhaust note needs liberating, but they feel quite special to me. Given the all-round capability and running costs, I think it would be a fairly difficult car to replace in many respects.
I've had a 986 Boxster S too, and while the Porsche is definitely a sweeter handling car, I wouldn't say it felt massively more fun than the Z4, but there was always that thing in the back of my mind about it presenting me with an enormous bill. That said, it hasn't stopped me thinking about a Cayman, but see the point about enormous bills
The 370Z is said by some to be a much better chassis than the 350Z but I haven't driven a 370Z to confirm.
GT86 with some mods would be a good shout, wouldn't have a standard one though personally. I think like the NC MX5, it needs a few small mods to get it where it should have been in the first place.
The BBR I heard from a few guys talking at a few car meets whenever I spoke about MX5s with them. Obviously all second hand but heard that said by different people. Yes the Cayman would be what I want but going for the cheapest one doesn't fill me with confidence lol
coldel said:
Super helpful thanks a really good write up.
The BBR I heard from a few guys talking at a few car meets whenever I spoke about MX5s with them. Obviously all second hand but heard that said by different people. Yes the Cayman would be what I want but going for the cheapest one doesn't fill me with confidence lol
No worries The BBR I heard from a few guys talking at a few car meets whenever I spoke about MX5s with them. Obviously all second hand but heard that said by different people. Yes the Cayman would be what I want but going for the cheapest one doesn't fill me with confidence lol
I wonder if the BBRs were forced induction, as generally, when I've read about issues, it seems to be the forced induction cars. In fact, I had a forced induction NA MX5, not a BBR mind, but it didn't seem particularly reliable at the time and I ended up going back to stock. I think the naturally aspirated route is pretty much as good as stock reliability, but after that then I reckon you must end up with some compromises, especially on the earlier, higher mile examples (like mine!).
I know what you mean with the Cayman. Looks like you can get a nice one for about £12k, but that's the gen 1 that everyone seems to be terrified of. To get into a gen 2 seems to mean just about doubling the cost of entry - sod that - they're good but I'm not sure they're that good, but then again, when everything else costs what it does, who knows.
Good luck with your search and keep us posted
Took the Z4 for an MOT and went through no problem, happy days. I do it over by my parents house which is about 90 mins away as an excuse to go see them etc. and driving it there and back it is a great car I have to say. No B roads around here but its ability to zip out of lanes and power past stuff is pretty impressive for a non M car in the BMW range.
So for all the talk of B roads, how often do I actually end up on one, without traffic in front of me? Definitely a consideration.
Also regarding the comments about a muted exhaust, for those that don't know, the Z4 has a noise pipe that ports noise from the induction/engine bay into the cabin. I took out the foam inserts to allow the noise to flow freely and under load it makes an amazing nose in the cabin, proper engine noise, not noise from an exhaust. The straight 6 just howls in fact I prefer it to some large bore exhaust if I am honest.
So where am i now. I might just have to hold on to it for now if the only other options are modified cars, a slower Toyota or a potential borking Porsche. Might not be a bad thing actually.
So for all the talk of B roads, how often do I actually end up on one, without traffic in front of me? Definitely a consideration.
Also regarding the comments about a muted exhaust, for those that don't know, the Z4 has a noise pipe that ports noise from the induction/engine bay into the cabin. I took out the foam inserts to allow the noise to flow freely and under load it makes an amazing nose in the cabin, proper engine noise, not noise from an exhaust. The straight 6 just howls in fact I prefer it to some large bore exhaust if I am honest.
So where am i now. I might just have to hold on to it for now if the only other options are modified cars, a slower Toyota or a potential borking Porsche. Might not be a bad thing actually.
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