Your investment questions answered Vol 2 - Sponsored by IM
Discussion
I'd like to thank Julian for the lucid explanation. and I'm more than happy with the reasoning.
I do think however the comms on this should have been handled much better. It was unfortunate that the emails went out prior to the online explanation, but that said not everyone who is on the PH referral is reading the forums.
I think all of the good stuff from the explanatory post here should also have been included in the email. In particular that it only affect accounts on the PH preferential terms and why that is.
my twopenneth
I do think however the comms on this should have been handled much better. It was unfortunate that the emails went out prior to the online explanation, but that said not everyone who is on the PH referral is reading the forums.
I think all of the good stuff from the explanatory post here should also have been included in the email. In particular that it only affect accounts on the PH preferential terms and why that is.
my twopenneth
NorthDave said:
I would have preferred more time between the announcement and the charge being taken. It seems like we have very little choice.
You have...JulianPH said:
Finally, if anyone remains of the opinion that we are not treating you fairly we will refund this charge should you wish to leave us, though we sincerely hope you understand the situation and do not. It never has been and never will be our intention to behave like our competitors in anything, so certainly not with fair charging for a fair and strong service.
It will pay for Coops2!seapod said:
For all those asking for the 0.15% to be added to the ongoing management charge, rather than levied as a one off fee, well, all I can say is that I hope you are still studying basic mathematics so you will eventually work out how much more this approach will cost you......
I wasn't going to post further on this topic but since I feel this is bit of a patronising dig at me...so i'll bite.On the point you make above - it doesn't have to be 0.15%/pa, for ever. It could be 0.05% for example - over 3 yrs and IM has their 'target' 0.15, and an extra 0.05% per yr isn't going to dissuade IM investors. I myself would welcome it as it is fair and accepted continuance of fee to cover costs. 0.05% is +10% on the fee I currently pay. Sound fair?
When I signed up to IM I agreed to their ongoing charge at that time. I was happy to accept it. It was supposed to be inclusive of everything. It isn't inclusive of everything if we are served short notice of a 'one-off' charge to cover extra costs.
The reason I refused to accept it was because to me it sounded like a quick need to raise cash rather than a properly thought out ongoing re-pricing structure. I'm in business myself and appreciate we all need to raise prices, manage costs, etc. If i went back to my customers and said "sorry, i need to charge you a bit more for that item you bought from me 12 months ago", i think they'd tell me to fk off.
I don't like talking figures on PH but for context this email yesterday morning was an additional cica £750-1000 cost that i feel has been served at incredibly short notice. Julian said this is a one-off fee just for this tax year and never to be repeated again. I would pretty pissed off if a new (PH) client came to IM with a million quid in a months time and saved £1500 (0.15%)
I'm not an unreasonable guy, and i hold high esteem for IM, JPH, and the team, but this is a matter of principal for me.
Edited by Phooey on Thursday 23 March 14:57
Phooey said:
I wasn't going to post further on this topic but since I feel this is bit of a patronising dig at me...so i'll bite.
On the point you make above - it doesn't have to be 0.15%/pa, for ever. It could be 0.05% for example - over 3 yrs and IM has their 'target' 0.15, and an extra 0.05% per yr isn't going to dissuade IM investors. I myself would welcome it as it is fair and accepted continuance of fee to cover costs. 0.05% is +10% on the fee I currently pay. Sound fair?
When I signed up to IM I agreed to their ongoing charge at that time. I was happy to accept it. It was supposed to be inclusive of everything. It isn't inclusive of everything if we are served short notice of a 'one-off' charge to cover extra costs.
The reason I refused to accept it was because to me it sounded like a quick need to raise cash rather than a properly thought out ongoing re-pricing structure. I'm in business myself and appreciate we all need to raise prices, manage costs, etc. If i went back to my customers and said "sorry, i need to charge you a bit more for that item you bought from me 12 months ago", i think they'd tell me to fk off.
I don't like talking figures on PH but for context this email yesterday morning was an additional cica £750-1000 cost that i feel has been served at incredibly short notice. Julian said this is a one-off fee just for this tax year and never to be repeated again. I would pretty pissed off if a new (PH) client came to IM with a million quid in a months time and saved £1500 (0.15%)
I'm not an unreasonable guy, and i hold high esteem for IM, JPH, and the team, but this is a matter of principal for me.
I can see you are annoyed, On the point you make above - it doesn't have to be 0.15%/pa, for ever. It could be 0.05% for example - over 3 yrs and IM has their 'target' 0.15, and an extra 0.05% per yr isn't going to dissuade IM investors. I myself would welcome it as it is fair and accepted continuance of fee to cover costs. 0.05% is +10% on the fee I currently pay. Sound fair?
When I signed up to IM I agreed to their ongoing charge at that time. I was happy to accept it. It was supposed to be inclusive of everything. It isn't inclusive of everything if we are served short notice of a 'one-off' charge to cover extra costs.
The reason I refused to accept it was because to me it sounded like a quick need to raise cash rather than a properly thought out ongoing re-pricing structure. I'm in business myself and appreciate we all need to raise prices, manage costs, etc. If i went back to my customers and said "sorry, i need to charge you a bit more for that item you bought from me 12 months ago", i think they'd tell me to fk off.
I don't like talking figures on PH but for context this email yesterday morning was an additional cica £750-1000 cost that i feel has been served at incredibly short notice. Julian said this is a one-off fee just for this tax year and never to be repeated again. I would pretty pissed off if a new (PH) client came to IM with a million quid in a months time and saved £1500 (0.15%)
I'm not an unreasonable guy, and i hold high esteem for IM, JPH, and the team, but this is a matter of principal for me.
Edited by Phooey on Thursday 23 March 14:57
Out of interest what would you have done that would not have incurred a cost if you had a longer timeframe.
I see your 0.05% proposal as costing me more in the term (additional money invested & hopefully increased returns) so would be more happy with the current proposal.
You can’t please all, I think we should be grateful that the increase is not being made permanent.
Rightly or wrongly I will suck it up if new PH don’t have the 0.15% charge, these things happen in life and have to be carried out at some change point.
PS. I live in Scotland we are used to paying more xxxxx tax than anyone else (not getting onto that subject)
PS. I live in Scotland we are used to paying more xxxxx tax than anyone else (not getting onto that subject)
[/quote]
Yes but you get free prescriptions and don't have to pay uni fees for your kids.
Otoh you're all ginger and stink of piss ;~}
Seriously though, if the extra fee had been applied when everyone's portfolio's were hitting all time highs, then there'd have been not a whimper, as it is its been a tough year or so....
Well it has for me anyways
Edited by dingg on Thursday 23 March 16:18
Consigliere said:
A message for the IM team, when clicking on Investment Tools and then Past Performance and Asset Allocation it just takes me back to the homepage. I sign in again and the same thing.
I'm trying to get the factsheet for PHE.
HI Consigliere,I'm trying to get the factsheet for PHE.
I've informed HQ
I may have the important bits handy. PM me or post up what you are looking for
Regards
Adam
tighnamara said:
dingg said:
PS. I live in Scotland we are used to paying more xxxxx tax than anyone else (not getting onto that subject)
Yes but you get free prescriptions and don't have to pay uni fees for your kids. Otoh you're all ginger and stink of piss ;~}
More to the point, we're not all ginger although you're probably right about the piss
My thanks to Julian for the explanation. I too fall in to the camp that doesn't mind this small additional charge, but it's a fact that it wasn't communicated well. Nonetheless, I remain a satisfied customer of an organisation that offers an extraordinarily tailored and personal experience.
My only thoughts on all this are that it is only 10% of what we all saved when we first invested with IM so doesn’t seem like a huge deal and more importantly it’s a drop in the ocean if it enables IM to get the right crayons on the job and make as much growth as possible with our money.
I’m not too bothered about matters of principle, more interested in bottom lines.
I’m not too bothered about matters of principle, more interested in bottom lines.
Steve H said:
I’m not too bothered about matters of principle, more interested in bottom lines.
Hear hear. Bottom line is what matters and why we invest in the first place.I think an e-mail sent to every investor is about the best comms you can expect; better that than a few lines lost in the middle of 10 pages of small print which is what most other companies would do.
To those who sold up on principle, your choice but you'll have a pile of cash you have to find a new home for on a better deal. And then there's CG to consider if the pile was big enough and not in an ISA.
ajh349 said:
Neither my wife of I have received this email??
Hi Alan,We are looking into why that might be and in any event we will send you a copy. We have a yahoo address for you.
Edited to add- I've been told it was sent. can you please check your Spam inbox
Regards
Adam
Edited by AdamIM on Friday 24th March 09:40
Consigliere said:
A message for the IM team, when clicking on Investment Tools and then Past Performance and Asset Allocation it just takes me back to the homepage. I sign in again and the same thing.
I'm trying to get the factsheet for PHE.
Hi Consigliere,I'm trying to get the factsheet for PHE.
The links should be working
Regards
Adam
AdamIM said:
Hi Consigliere,
The links should be working
Regards
Adam
Just tried, dont know if its me or the site.The links should be working
Regards
Adam
Clicked on Investment tools > All Portfolios (under Past Performance and Asset Allocation) which then opens a new tab https://www.intelligentmoney.com/copy-of-investmen...
And when I click on PH EQUITY, it opens a new tab for a split second and then disappears.
Checked my downloads and nothing there.
Phooey said:
seapod said:
For all those asking for the 0.15% to be added to the ongoing management charge, rather than levied as a one off fee, well, all I can say is that I hope you are still studying basic mathematics so you will eventually work out how much more this approach will cost you......
I wasn't going to post further on this topic but since I feel this is bit of a patronising dig at me...so i'll bite.On the point you make above - it doesn't have to be 0.15%/pa, for ever. It could be 0.05% for example - over 3 yrs and IM has their 'target' 0.15, and an extra 0.05% per yr isn't going to dissuade IM investors. I myself would welcome it as it is fair and accepted continuance of fee to cover costs. 0.05% is +10% on the fee I currently pay. Sound fair?
When I signed up to IM I agreed to their ongoing charge at that time. I was happy to accept it. It was supposed to be inclusive of everything. It isn't inclusive of everything if we are served short notice of a 'one-off' charge to cover extra costs.
The reason I refused to accept it was because to me it sounded like a quick need to raise cash rather than a properly thought out ongoing re-pricing structure. I'm in business myself and appreciate we all need to raise prices, manage costs, etc. If i went back to my customers and said "sorry, i need to charge you a bit more for that item you bought from me 12 months ago" , i think they'd tell me to fk off.
I don't like talking figures on PH but for context this email yesterday morning was an additional cica £750-1000 cost that i feel has been served at incredibly short notice. Julian said this is a one-off fee just for this tax year and never to be repeated again. I would pretty pissed off if a new (PH) client came to IM with a million quid in a months time and saved £1500 (0.15%)
I'm not an unreasonable guy, and i hold high esteem for IM, JPH, and the team, but this is a matter of principal for me.
Edited by Phooey on Thursday 23 March 14:57
The part I have bolded above in your quote is I think the crux here. Naturally it would be nuts to try and go back and charge more for a product sold 12 months ago, if the product was a one off purchase. But IM are operating an ongoing service where costs fluctuate. We pay and they charge daily - we currently have a period of high cost, we can see it get baked into a long term agreement or pay a one off 'premium'. If people start investing in a year's time, then they may be investing when costs are lower so will pay less. I don't think this is unreasonable. I would rather 'pay as you go' and accept some volatility to the fee structure rather than take a higher fixed cost to pay for the risk that IM are taking. We are all different; I prefer to pay for a building project on a time and materials basis, others prefer a fixed price for the job. Its not a right or wrong approach. But each model carries different risk and premium, its simply a question of to whom it gets applied.
Anyway, on another note I am about to ask IM a basic investment question on a not so brilliantly timed investment, so you can have a good laugh at my expense shortly!!
Just wanted to understand something (probably basic).
31-July-22 the price of PHE was 96.12
31-Aug-22 the price of PHE was 8.35
Is this the price of 1 unit or share or something else?
Also are these in sterling or dollar or something else?
Also 96.12 to 8.35 is like 90% drop, my PHE hasnt fallen that much. Am i interpreting this incorrectly?
Edited by Consigliere on Friday 24th March 10:19
seapod said:
[edit , content removed ]
Anyway, on another note I am about to ask IM a basic investment question on a not so brilliantly timed investment, so you can have a good laugh at my expense shortly!!
I'll bet it wont beat my wife's question to her IFA in a visit earlier this month ( I don't have such and she has NO investments with IM ) ..... " so how much money have you lost me in last year ? " Anyway, on another note I am about to ask IM a basic investment question on a not so brilliantly timed investment, so you can have a good laugh at my expense shortly!!
Half fortunate for him he was at least able to proudly announce a small ( very ) gain .......detail which I didn't bother spoiling by pointing out that the fees for same year DWARFED the net gain to her . Such is life , and the grass is often browner/full of weeds/moss etc on the other side of the fence.
Edited by PM3 on Friday 24th March 10:25
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