Nürburgring 2023
Discussion
RSbandit said:
Lovely …not taking the GT3RS then ?!
I thought I would take the Audi for the long journey to and from the Ring. I’ll probably reduce my commitment on the Nordschleife a tad too! I’ve got 20 track days booked in the UK which will be shared between the GT3RS and the Cayman R. Roll on 2023…
RSbandit said:
Did two circuit days events this yr as the DN timings didn’t work for me…first day wasn’t great tbh a lot of over zealous idiots and driving standards quite poor, that was in July. Second day in mid Oct much better but the trickier conditions probably helped. Overall I prefer DN but the traffic is very fast especially the Ring Prime days in July, could be v intimidating if you’re not reasonably experienced around there.
Depends on your psychology. I feel happier being a slower car on a fast day than having to make too many overtakes on (sometimes unpredictable) novices.Some of my favourite days on circuits have been mixing with race cars on slicks and with very handy drivers. You barely need to slow to let them by; just indicate clearly and give them a gap. They are very much in the mode of getting past stuff if they are racers.
Tend to find people with more experience are better at keeping egos in check.
Digga said:
Depends on your psychology. I feel happier being a slower car on a fast day than having to make too many overtakes on (sometimes unpredictable) novices.
Some of my favourite days on circuits have been mixing with race cars on slicks and with very handy drivers. You barely need to slow to let them by; just indicate clearly and give them a gap. They are very much in the mode of getting past stuff if they are racers.
Tend to find people with more experience are better at keeping egos in check.
Yeah fair comments you can defo see the difference on DN days alot of v quick but usually well driven metal….exceptions being some of the Nordic participants but that’s another story ! Some of my favourite days on circuits have been mixing with race cars on slicks and with very handy drivers. You barely need to slow to let them by; just indicate clearly and give them a gap. They are very much in the mode of getting past stuff if they are racers.
Tend to find people with more experience are better at keeping egos in check.
How’s May for a time to go? Thinking of a mon 8th - fri 12th as it seems a full week of TF except for one day. Gives me plenty of time for a few TF laps on multiple days and to visit the rest of the area.
And Hotel An Der Nordschleife for accommodation as Iv seen a few people recommend Adenau to stay?
And Hotel An Der Nordschleife for accommodation as Iv seen a few people recommend Adenau to stay?
RSbandit said:
Did two circuit days events this yr as the DN timings didn’t work for me…first day wasn’t great tbh a lot of over zealous idiots and driving standards quite poor, that was in July. Second day in mid Oct much better but the trickier conditions probably helped. Overall I prefer DN but the traffic is very fast especially the Ring Prime days in July, could be v intimidating if you’re not reasonably experienced around there.
As someone that hasn’t done the ring for four years (life, covid and wrong car for a bit) but used to do it very regularly prior how hardcore are the prime days? Trying to work out if I should go for the prime pair of days or Circuit days in April.Overtake either side and race cars don’t particularly worry me, just more how fast the likely closing speeds are.
Prime days have less cars than regular DN days but the overall pace is pretty quick, overtaking on both sides actually works well in that environment as the slower car just holds the racing line and the faster car gets by on whatever side is easiest. I’d still say some reasonable ring experience Is required as there as quite a few participants capable of 7- 7.15 BTG times so the really fast guys can appear in your mirrors out of knowhere with associated closing speeds. If you’re doing 10 minute or more BTG I’d suggest a regular DN day or Circuit days .
RSbandit said:
Prime days have less cars than regular DN days but the overall pace is pretty quick, overtaking on both sides actually works well in that environment as the slower car just holds the racing line and the faster car gets by on whatever side is easiest. I’d still say some reasonable ring experience Is required as there as quite a few participants capable of 7- 7.15 BTG times so the really fast guys can appear in your mirrors out of knowhere with associated closing speeds. If you’re doing 10 minute or more BTG I’d suggest a regular DN day or Circuit days .
In part some of this is the case but I don’t wholeheartedly agree in full. I have always preferred the overtaking both sides format. It’s not just on The ringmeisters days that it is used. However it still can have its issues just as only left days. The track is 80% blind and any safe overtake is primarily the task of the faster vehicle. Yes, the slower vehicle needs to check his or her mirrors frequently but they will be the last person to spot each involved car. The faster car from the rear will always catch a glimpse of the slower car first therefore they ultimately decide if and when they will pass depending on their closing speed and whereabouts they are on the track. Most of the passing cars will not wait for indication or invitation if the speed difference is such that a safe pass can be executed with no waiting or lifting. Wether it’s a budget day or a prime day there are always two parties trying to make decisions based on the factors each sees. As I come from a bike background my track world is one where the slower guy has no knowledge of what’s going on behind him as we don’t have mirrors. Ultimately anyone making a pass is the person in control of the situation whatever type of trackday it is. They are the one that decides based on what they see upfront. If the vehicle upfront is mid corner and they want to finish their corner then they should have that privaledge. The passer should not be going for any diminishing gaps. Likewise the slower vehicle should at all time drive predictably and smoothly to assist any faster traffic and also to minimize risk to themselves.
I have also seen some of the worst possible driving on premium type days. Days where there have been the most hours of red have also been on premium type days. Not normally down to the interaction between vehicles but because the track is clearer with out the traffic drives feel they can push themselves faster and take their lines ever closer to the limit. The other factor is mechanical things can fail, they shouldn’t but even a top prepped car can still fail, especially with an environment with less cars and the space being there to push harder.
Drivers are also in a variety of cars be it a budget or premium environment. Even if every driver/entrant was limited to the same spec GT3rs you would still get a big difference in performance so you’d still encounter traffic, you’d still get conflict, you’d still get crashes.
There is no absolute answer to make the perfect driving trackday, especially with the many and varied types of cars on track.
Nürburgring also is one of if not the worst tracks for safety from the track marshaling/safety aspect. Anyone that has experienced the efficiency of other tracks around the world can be taken aback at the poor standards of track management and protocol at the Nürburgring.
Should people with less ring experience enter premium events?? Well I have coached many people over the years that exhibit far better etiquette and driving behavior than is exhibited by the supposedly better experienced driver.
What people sometimes forget is that a trackday should be fun, it’s not a competitive event and it should never be. If people want to compete against the clock or bully their way around the track then go get a competition license and see how good they really are.
Prime or budget it’s all about everyone looking after everyone else on the track rather than just themselves. Respecting the limitations of others and staying safe.
Report the bad things and maybe even praise the good, as the event organiser whoever it is can not be proactive if they are not aware of things.
So often people at the end of the day will have a moan about someone’s poor driving. It’s no good at the end of the day, tell the people at the time so the risk can be reduced.
2023 will be another very busy year on track.
Stay safe out there, have fun, go home happy.
All fair points Roy! Having an instructor sitting in is always a huge help especially for novices I’d almost say it should be compulsory for rookies but of course there’s a cost aspect to consider. Roll on 2023 hoping to get 2 days in during the summer and maybe a cheeky late season single too.
b0rk said:
As someone that hasn’t done the ring for four years (life, covid and wrong car for a bit) but used to do it very regularly prior how hardcore are the prime days? Trying to work out if I should go for the prime pair of days or Circuit days in April.
Overtake either side and race cars don’t particularly worry me, just more how fast the likely closing speeds are.
If you know where you are going and use your mirrors, the RM days are fine.Overtake either side and race cars don’t particularly worry me, just more how fast the likely closing speeds are.
MAX 120 cars means you`ll get more clear laps than on any other UK TDO nurburgring event. I`ve done Ringmeisters for the last several years and even though I`ve done `normal` DN days, the quality of track time on the RM days is a step up.
Yes there are quick cars, but the overtaking either side actually helps, you don`t have to move off line to let someone past so as long as you are aware they are coming and aren`t startled by them overtaking, it doesn`t spoil your rhythm as much as a `normal` left side only overtake.
The CD days are obviously busier with a lot more cars. I`ve done CD days too and if you go with the right mindset and expect it to be busier you`ll still enjoy yourself.
The average laptime on an RM day will be quicker, but there are still plenty drivers going round at a steady pace. I help on the DN days and whether it`s DN or RM, if a driver is being a knob, they WILL be spoken to. The events work well because there is a mutual respect amongst the drivers.
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